e-Cigarettes - Electronic Cigarettese - e-Cigarette-Blog.com

I’m trying to make the transition from traditional cigarettes to e-cigarettes, but unfortunately I keep finding myself wanting the real thing. One thing I started doing that really seems to help is to smoke e-cigs like I would a normal cig (go outside and the whole bit). Unfortunately, e-cigs just don’t deliver the same punch nor do they really act like traditional cigs. I’d actually prefer it if after ~15-20 puffs they’d just turn off for a minute so that I knew that my time was up.

My next plan of action is to buy a pack or two of Eclipse. I’ve used them before, and they certainly seem to be similar to e-cigs in my opinion. Though, like regular cigarettes, they go out after a fixed amount of time and deliver slightly more punch. I figure, after a few days with Eclipse, the transition might be easier. Anyone else try this path?|||I haven’t tried Eclipse. If you’re really planning just a few days for transition it doesn’t much matter one way or the other - you could use anything that doesn’t contain, let’s say, heroin or drain cleaner.

If you are thinking of longer term Eclipse usage you might want to read Michael Siegel’s analysis. I generally trust him on tobacco issues.

For other options… Snus and prescription nicotine nasal spray give a good hit, if that’s your primary need. And they can be used longer term while esmoking. There’s more discussion of such things in the Other Alternatives to Smoking section.|||I have tried a friends Eclipse once and I think it will be an excellent transition, as they taste is pretty bad and the hit isn’t that good either. You will really enjoy the ecig after an eclipse if that is your last memory of a "real" cig. haha|||Not to mention the expense.|||Eclipse cigarettes are very interesting … taste … kind of like charcoal, and the smoke hit can be quite hot/steamy going down the back of the throat. the Nic hit is useless, but the smoke hit is definitely there. I smoked them exclusively for about 2-3 months back in the day. Expensive ……|||Eclipse?? Can someone enlighten me? ||| |||Sounds utterly discusting!!|||I’ve been using nothing but Eclipse (a single pack so far) and e-cigs for three days now. I may have to buy another pack of Eclipse tomorrow.

The e-cigs are more and more appealing after using Eclipse and I feel like there’s some sort of comfort in having a pack of smokes available if I need it. At this point the only thing keeping me from smoking e-cigs exclusively is either psychological or the fact that e-cigs are somewhat hit or miss when it comes to vapor production… Mostly psychological I suppose

The Eclipse are sort of nasty to be sure. I’ve tried both menthol and regular in the past. Really, the only difference is menthol is slightly minty whereas regular is just like inhaling steam. I’m not sure which I dislike least.

Aside from taste, I think Eclipse are given more of a bad rap than they deserve. Certainly, quitting is the best option, but I can’t imagine Eclipse are worse than cigarettes, as some imply. If they are, then I’d really like to see the study. In my mind, Eclipse are somewhat like e-cigs in that they give you the nicotine hit and some flavor without as much of a risk. Sure, there may still be a risk, but the point is the risk is reduced. And even if the risk is 90% of a traditional cigarette, I think it’s worth marketing. I guess if RJ Reynolds sold e-cigs they’d get sued for causing dry throats.

In my case, however, I’m just using Eclipse so that moving completely to e-cigs is easier. So far I think it’s working

Regardless, I’d like to eventually move completely to e-cigs. Though I guess there are probably risks with e-cigs too |||

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Dr loi’s original solution called for the wool from a used cart, with the addition of 3ml of normal saline plus 1ml of juice.

I’ve modified that to make it easier for me and perhaps you to use.

What do I use now.
I bought a 0.9% saline (sodium chloride, NaCl, salt) solution in a 20ml container. This is a common size.

In a 30ml eye dropper bottle I put the entire contents of the saline and added the wool from a mostly used cartridge together with the wool and the plastic cart, with the mouth piece removed, from 2 (two) unused regular flavour carts … Why did I put the plastic pieces into the solution ? I noticed there was quite a bit of juice still remaining in the bottom of the plastic cart I wanted included. I also think the plastic components will help stabilise the solution to a greater extent than the wool alone. Please also note I used a BROWN coloured glass bottle, nicotine is photosensitive, i.e. It discolours and may degrade when exposed to light. That’s why carts have opaque containers and covers.

I gave the solution some serious mixing by shaking the **** out of it several times over a couple of hours, pick up, shake, put down, shake again when I remember too, and then left it until the next day.

the next day, I again gave it a serious shake-up and then put 3 (three) drops from the eye dropper into the atomizer.

I put the atomizer aside for a couple of minutes to allow the solution to percolate through the whole thing.

I put a mouthpiece / inhaler on the unit and drew slowly on it until the LED flashed to show cut off. Steam was produced in increasingly vast quantities for the first 10-15 puffs, after that it began to decrease. I continued until the vapour produced was minimal.

Next was the addition of a fresh cart. I inhaled 10 or so times with a fresh cart in place and then placed it aside to allow the juice from the cart to be sucked into the metal wool surrounding the atomizer coil. This was the end of the day so it was able to sit there all night.

The following morning I certainly did notice a change, there was a considerable increase in the amount of vapour produced, and it increased with each puff for maybe 3-5 puffs the stabilised. the flavour had improved. previously with two of the atomizers cleaned I had noticed a burnt sort of flavour, this was now gone.

I wonder if the effect of the material others have noticed in the centre of the atomizer coil has been negated ?

There is a slight saltiness to the flavour of the "smoke" produced, I do not find this unattractive, in fact it may increase my appreciation of some flavours, e.g. licourice, I like salty dutch licourice, it maybe time to retry that.

Anyway, hope this helps some of you and gets either, your dead, near dead or otherwise atomizers working again|||Please note that during the cleaning process I did not inhale the vapour but merely drew it into my mouth and exhaled. the first 10 or so puffs with a fresh cartridge wrre also not inhaled.

I equate this to being a similar process pipe smokers go through to clean a pipe out periodically.|||Interesting - thanks for posting this. I will have to try.|||update 6th july

All of the atomizers I cleaned using the modified solution are still working as well as before. One thing i have noticed is that they all now have a slight and I do mean slight, salty flavour to them. i am not overly surprised by this and for the most part enjoy it as an addition to the flavour cart I am smoking.

It appears the salt is left behind as a residue on the internal components of the atomizer and is being removed slowly as time passes with use of regular ppg flavoured juice.

Salt is regularly added to tobacco products now as a flavour enhancer, it’s for example an integral part of snus. i must admit the slight salt inflection has coloured my assessment of the e-cig cartridge flavours and fror that reason I will be only using non cleaned with soloution, recently ordered atomizers from now on.

For general day to day use I am not unhappy with the new slight salt inflection, frankly I like it.

For my next batch of cleaning solution I will try using only pure water, this will not affect the on going smoking flavour, but i wonder if it will as effective. I think the salt content of the cleaning fluid is what creates the cleaning action in the first place … comments please from those with more knowledgge than I.|||My fear when Dr. Loi first posted his cleaning solution idea was that salt residue would be left on the atomizer and its roll cage! Even overnight, it would attract moisture and initiate rusting.

I know I made a mistake in cooking tobacco in salty liquid. I had a salt taste to everything for more than a day — proof that residue remains. I threw out everything I had made using salt and will never use it again. I’d be fearful to try "cleaning" with any salt solution. Pure water. Pure alcohol. I alternate between the two|||hmm, that does pose an interesting array of questions concerning the construction of the various parts of the atomizer.

For the atomizer to rust it would need to be made of a ferrous based material. that would mean either an iron or steel wool is used for the surrounding parts. I thought the wool used was of a stainless steel manufacture, but would stand correction there. The heater element I am almost certain is made from nichrome wire and would therefore not rust.|||I wonder if hydrogen peroxide might work? Seems it might dry pretty quick? Also, I use a hairdryer right after rinsing atomizer, and use the newly rnsed atomizer fora bit which the heat I think herlps to dry the insides of the rinse|||Good thought Nazareth,

hydrogen peroxide is exceptionally good at oxidising/removing biologicals, it may also work here just as effectively. How strong to use is the question I guess, 20 vol, 40 vol or 60 vol ?

It may not dry out as well as water, water is H2O and hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, it’s boiling point is 1580C / 316.40F so higher than water, but when it’s heated it breaks down to be (2H2O2 ==> 2H2O O2). That’s water plus oxygen. But the drying will depend on what it’s diluted with in the first place, it will need some further research before we go ahead and recommend it

Are you going to try it and see if it works ?|||the only Hydro I have is the weak 3% stuff that you can rinse mo0uth with- so it should be ok to try in the atomizer- I’ve got one atomizer that simply will NOT draw liquid from the Carts for some reason, and only works by dripping- so I mgiht give it a try on that one as it’s useless as it is for smoking like the pen is supposed to- with a cart- I’ve got another that is gettign very weak, I might possibly try it on that too- the two need somethign doen ot them evidently, so yeah, I might try it, but wish I had strogner hydro- but it might work- simple rinsing with water doesn’t seem to work- perhaps the hydro might.|||ok- I just soaked one of my old ‘dead’ atomizers (the atomizer would simpyl not draw any liquid fro mthe cart- would just burn off what was in the atomizer itsel;f, then nothing- no vapor, just burnt taste and smell- even htough I had new carts in) in the hydrogen peroxide- then rinsed with water, blew the excess water out of it- let it dry a bit, and primed it with juice- smoking good now- much easier to draw too than it was when it was ‘dying’ - I’m not sure why the atomizer was not drawing liquid from the carts before- I tried everything to get it to work and nothign did- boiled it, blew through battery end for 10 seconds, boiled it in water and baking soda- nothign worked- now it’s working pretty well- not as good as brand new one, but still ok I guess- will see how logn it lasts- I’d given up on the atomizer, but it appears it’s got soem morel ife yet- dunno if the Hydrogen was the trick or not, but it’s now workin- workign even better than my one I’ve only used for 7 days total. Might be worth a try if yall got soem that you think might be dead- ones you’ve given up on- Hydrogen peroxide is dirt cheap

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Well, having been a regular user of medicinal nicotine lozenges for years and years, I can’t really see the point in Ariva and Stonewall.

They are marketed as dissolvable tobacco, and from what I can gather are highly powdered, flavoured and compressed tablets of tobacco. I suppose they are aimed at the dipping tobacco market, since the website makes great play on the fact that there’s no spitting needed! Clearly there’s no spitting with the medicinal product either, and absolutely NO TSNAs (Tobacco-specific nitrosamines - the cancer causing agents in tobacco and tobacco smoke).|||I’ve used both, so can comment with some authority. Basically, I use Stonewall because of price. Pure and simple. The things are cheaper per piece than any of the now over-the-counter nicotine replacement offerings. I have a friend hooked on lozenges and he’d save money going back to his cigarette habit. Another friend has been hooked on gum for two years and is a non-stop chewer. Too expensive! Plus, lozenges do not serve up enough nicotine to give an ex-smoker a hit, so cravings remain. Ditto for all the other offerings that max out at 4mg.

Let me add that Stonewall (I used Ariva when it first hit the market) can’t satisfy me alone, anymore than some gum or lozenge can. I still love to smoke, not inhale, a pipe. I’m using the new e-Pipe now in some non-smoking environments. When I’m about to go nuts, I use Oliver Twist bits. HEAVY nicotine hit. I’ve worked out a rotation combination that works for me, and keeps me from deeply inhaling smoke. I know the damage it did, and would continue to do.

Also let me plug snus in dry pouches. I’ll comment further on this in the special forum for snus. I use them almost non-stop, even while smoking a pipe.|||So i contacted the makers of Stonewall/Ariva and they are sending me a box of each product and blend to try out. I just called to find out where i could buy it and they offered it to me.

So far the service has been great and the lady was really nice.

-Dusty-|||I hope you enjoy them as much as I do, Dusty. The Java flavored Stonewall bits are daily fare for me. They’re the first thing I reach for when I awaken each morning and the first thing I do after completing dinner. My local tobacco store stocks them for me and I go through about four boxes a week. That’s in addition to several tins of snus and my e-smoking. (Oh, and about four pipes of real tobacco each day.) I know I could not do without Stonewall, among everything I use. I’d almost rank it first on my own list.

It did take time to get used to the bits. There’s no instant nicotine hit as with cigarettes. They take about 45 minutes to dissolve in the mouth. But they maintain a steady-state nicotine level in the blood. And they taste great (I buy java exclusively).

Post your thoughts after a few days of using them. (And you’ll hate the tamper-proof container.)|||i’ll let you know how i like them.

The NM distributor is supposed to call me on monday so hopefully i’ll actually know where to buy them.

Went to the local tobacconist to see if they carried snus, and they don’t. They did say that they should be carrying it by the end of next month, so we’ll see how that goes.

Where do you buy your snus? online or local?

Thanks,
-Dusty-|||Rat, could you give me the contact info? I wanna try, too. I’m not interested in it for regular use, but as Bob said, backup systems are always good. |||http://www.disolvabletobacco.com/

that is their webpage. i called the number that is listed on the "get connected" page.

They claim Ariva is sold at walgreens and rite-aid, but i didn’t see it here. granted i only went ot like one walgreens that was in the ghetto.

-Dusty-|||Thanks, Rat. I’ll check it out later.|||no problem at all.

-Dusty-|||Dusty: I buy snus at a Sarasota tobacco store (Tobacco Depot chain) AND online. The only Swedish varieties available in the U.S. are a limited amount from Swedish Match, the biggest snus company. I buy CatchDry Peppermint, which tastes like a breath mint, is quite weak in nicotine, and lasts for an hour or more per portion. They also sell General portions, which are somewhat stronger and have a tobacco taste. Avoid loose snus. You want portions/little teabag-like pouches.

In some parts of the country, you can now find Camel and Marlboro snus being test-marketed. I like them. Both are tasty .. and weak in nicotine. The Marlboro is extremely weak, leading some to conclude snus is being set up for failure, to keep smokers on cigarettes. There’s also SkoalDry Cinnamon, which Skoal doesn’t call a snus, but it is. It tastes like Dentyne chewing gum.

Online, from either http://www.northerner.com or http://www.buysnus.com, I order Wise snus, both tasteless and citrus/menthol (I don’t like the regular Wise flavor). These are extremely potent snus that can spin your world in 10 minutes if you combine it with, say, e-smoking. Voice of experience speaking here. I use the 6mg Wise dry portions, not the weaker 3mg ones. The tasteless is wonderful and can be used with any drink or food, without messing up the taste.

By way of comparison, a cigarette might have 1.5mg of nicotine. You suck that into your system in 10 minutes. A Wise 6mg hits your system about 10 minutes after you place it between check and gum! It’s much stronger than a cigarette and much stronger than e-smoking 24mg liquid. If the strength ever bothers you, take that one out and try again later. Or use 3mg snus.

Lucky Strike is a good snus with a tobacco taste. I also recommend snus aimed at women: Vertigo in both flavors and Romeo y Julieta Senorita. Despite what you might read on snus forums, don’t go for the strong or loose stuff that will grow hair on your shoulders. Most people won’t like it and will give up snusing. The beauty of this is not only that it provides needed nicotine, but that it does so invisibly. You can use these anywhere, anytime, and no one need know.

And the overall cost of snusing is far less than smoking cigarettes.

Hope this Snus 101 helps.It helps very much.

so the skoal dry is actually a snus? guessing it isn’t cured the same way as regular skoal?

Thanks,
-Dusty-

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Hello all, I’m so happy I found this forum. Very Informative. I ordered and recieved my first E-cig from Njoy this last week.. I would say I love it.. cut down from 2 packs a day to half a pack so far. Only thing is.. often when I inhale.. I end up coughing like crazy… My wife and a few others I’ve let take a puff have the same coughing reaction.. Anyone else coughing from the vapor inhaling??? Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong. Thanks in advance.

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!

I still get a cough with my E-cig from Njoy, tends to be on the first initial puff. Since my first E-cig from Njoy, I’ve purchased 2 different types of Minis and another pen style from E-cig.com. I don’t tend to cough with those hardly at all. I cannot tell at this time whats the difference other than the E Liquid used. Ordered E-liquid from E-cig.com and tried dripping and do not seem to get a cough from that. I think I’ll try to extract the liquid from an Njoy cartridge and drip it on one of my other cigs and see what happens. I’ll post results back here soon.|||Hi Meltrex!

Sorry to hear about your coughing problem. Have you emailed Njoy about it? Do you cough with all strengths of cartridges? Did the coughing start straight away or after a few days of starting e-smoking?

Regards,

SJ|||I understand perfectly. When that vapor hits the back of my throat, I often cough — particularly on the first inhalation. For me, it doesn’t seem related to nicotine strength (I’ve moved exclusively to 24mg nicotine now). I don’t usually continue the cough, however. A smoker soon learns whether the cough is from the throat or lungs. Short bark is throat. Rattling is lungs and a message to stop whatever is causing it!

I’ve been e-smoking a couple of months and still get the occasional throat cough. But gone now are the lung coughs brought on by cigarettes.||| |||My Ruyan does the same thing to me also. I sometimes just let the vapor sit in my mouth for a split second before doing the full inhale. That helps quite a bit, I think it may be due to the temperature… but then how hot is normal cigarette smoke compared to e-smoke?|||Thats what I’ve learned to do as well, let it sit in my mouth for a sec.. then I’ll actually let it creep out and up my nose for the inhale… so I can see the vapor smoke as well Just ordered apple flavored refills from Njoy, any reviews or has anyone tried that yet?|||After trying a few different E-cigs. I still tend to cough when inhaling the vapor. I’ve ordered and recieved some E-liquid from E-cig.com. Going to try to refill an Njoy cartridge (Tend to cough more with Njoy) I did try e-drippin 2 drops on the atomizer of the Njoy then used an apple flavored cartridge and the taste was very enjoyable. The coughing varies, I’m not sure why it happens. I have a technique when it comes to E-smoking. I cannot just pick it up and take drags off of it like I do a regular cig. So E-smoking is definately not the same as cigarette smoking. When I drag off of my E-cig I’ll keep the vapor in my mouth for a few seconds and either do a few french inhales (up thru my nose) then inhale the rest and I don’t cough at all. I have noticed letting the vapor wallow in my mouth a few seconds before inhaling deeply, reduces the coughing temendously and still get vapor from exhaling but its very subtle. I do feel the rush of a nicotine hit you might say. Similar to smoking a regular cig just not as intense.|||Meltrex: As you’ll note from other posts I’ve made on the forum, I too am coughing. At first, it was mostly with the first inhalation. Now, it’s daily and persistant into the night. As this new method of getting nicotine is evolving, we are learning that propylene glycol irritates some people’s lungs. I think I might be one of those people.

If that’s the case, then I can’t inhale vapor. Fortunately, I have my monstrous e-pipe and I must return to "smoking" it the way I do my real pipes. Puff, hold smoke in mouth, exhale. Never inhale into the lungs. This, however, requires super-strong nicotine liquid, since the nicotine must be absorbed by the less efficient mouth, not the highly efficient lungs.

And it renders my mini cig just about useless (I have an e-cigar that I’ll "smoke" the same as a real cigar; no inhaling).

I’ll test all this further, but I’m a concerned e-smoker at this moment. E-smoking is a marvelous step away from cigarette smoking, but it might not be for everyone. I’m with SJ that we might need to find a substitute liquid — even a more expensive one — than propylene glycol.|||Bob, here’s an interesting fact you may or may not be aware of regarding pipe smoking:

Cigar and pipe tobacco has a significantly raised PH level, the reason being that it enables the nicotine to be more efficiently absorbed by the mucous membranes (I don’t know why!)

I wonder if you added something to the nicotine solution to raise the PH levels, you might get a more satisfactory hit without having to use an extra-strong (and expensive) solution?

Question is though, what could you add?|||Good thought. When the secret documents of tobacco companies came to light in the U.S., it was found that numerous cigarette makers added an alkaline substance to the tobacco so that the nicotine would be better absorbed. And if you want to ruin smoking’s effect, just drink some pineapple juice while you smoke. You won’t feel a thing.

Acid mouth, reduced impact. Alkaline mouth, increased impact. I’ll do some research on a consumable alkaline substance that could be added to e-Liquid. (And I’ll make sure I’ve got my pH’s pointing in the right direction.)SJ: Cigarette makers added ammonia to increase absorption of free nicotine. But the easiest way to boost the pH and thus the absorption of nicotine is to add seawater or sea salt. That might explain the extreme saltiness found in most Swedish snus. Users assume it’s to increase snus’ useful tin life, but it also increases the nicotine absorbed from this product. I’ll experiment with adding some seawater to e-Liquid and see if I get an increased nicotine lift. I have one bottle of "medium" on hand and one of "extra high". I’ll try the medium first.

Some of the material I read leads me to believe all kinds of beneficial minerals could be added to that solution. Who knows how they would react to nicotine, but probably not much at all. We could end up with a smoking device that satisfies addiction and the daily vitamin/mineral needs! Ha.

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from: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/coynews.htm

Fast acting nicotine pouch, mouth spray and lozenge 聳 the NEWS Study 1 March 2008

See the final report http://www.healthnz.co.nz/NicoNovumSRNT2008Poster.pdf presented at the 14th SRNT meeting, Portland, Oregon, 2008.

The pouch and mouth spray were clinically effective and may give faster and greater relief of cravings than nicotine gum.

In 2007, nearly 80 smokers completed a phase three trial of three fast acting nicotine products in the NEWS study (Niconovum Evaluation of Withdrawal relief study) at Clinical Trials Research Unit, School of Population Health, University of Auckland. Dr Hayden McRobbie was the principal investigator, and Dr Laugesen of Health New Zealand, a co-investigator. This was sponsored by Heart Foundation and Niconovum AB, Sweden.|||What a surprise, huh? A pouch with nicotine that is absorbed through the mouth can reduce cravings. But notice that the pouch has this Big Pharma name. NicoNovum or something, the same as the company that funded this study. Bet it has an equally big price. But exactly how is it better than Swedish snus that cost about the same as a pack of cigarettes? Snus have been used for more than a hundred years, with no increase in tobacco-related cancers.

Let’s put it together: Big Tobacco is virtually betting its future is snus. We now have Camel, Marlboro and Lucky Strike pouches of snus (this is NOT chewing tobacco). We have new snus products, in fact, from every American tobacco company. And now we see that Big Pharmaceutical is betting part of its future NRT is a snus product, filled, of course, with medical-grade nicotine.

Wonder how they’ll view e-smoking when they spot it through the forest of snus they’re cultivating.

Full disclosure notice: I use snus daily, almost non-stop, in addition to e-smoking. Snus is my major source of nicotine, not e-smoking. Snus can be extremely potent and I’ve not found that with e-smoking 24mg liquid with massive clouds of vapor. What I love about e-smoking is how it duplicates the smoking motions I developed in 50 years of cigarette smoking. Snus for the addiction; e-cig for the habit. Better together.|||I couldn’t agree more TB. I have gone blurry eyed researching snus and stonewall and I really don’t see how big pharma is going to improve upon these products and if they taste as aweful as the gum and lozenges that big pharma has tried to feed us forget about it. Now if they can give us a product that contains no tsnas (or whatever the h*ll thier called) tastes as good or better than the java stonewalls I just got and cost about the same then hey I welcome another choice, but we have a better chance of the FDA classifying water as a class A carcinogen than that ever happening. That would actualy be kinda funny, I can just picture some poor kid being carded for a class of water at a resurant and public schools having to remove all thier water fountains.|||think you might like this site..

http://www.dhmo.org/

-Dusty-||| |||LOL dusty that was awesome, my favorite quote;

"DHMO is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful. "

i love it that made my day|||glad i could be of service.

panexa looks awesome. i need buckets of that stuff.

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Just got this from a family member, whom of course, is now spouting it like the bible. Can anyone here help me out to validate otherwise?

ARGGH… I can’t post the URL!!!|||I have to post 10 more times in order post a URL. Can I mail the URL to someone and they post?|||Hi Mentalfloss, welcome to the forum.

We have four threads about this -

New report who
OMS went to war war against cigarettes electronics
UN says ELECTRONIC CIGARETTE’ NOT A SAFE OR PROVEN QUITTING METHOD FOR SMOKERS
Even Engadget website got news on e cig

Apparently some suppliers say that WHO endorses esmoking and WHO have issued a statement saying that they do not and there is no proof that esmoking is safe. Etc.|||Unless there have been rapid developments I don’t think they can fully substansiate that claim yet.
There may be some health issues but I can’t see e-cigs being as bad for one’s health as regular cigs. ‘SAFER’ might be the operative word because 2 or 3 potentially harmful chemicals have got to win the day over the 4000 with a regular cig?|||I think the important thing to note is the difference between ’safe’ and ’safer’.

We have no clinical trials or long term toxicology reports which prove either.|||And THAT is the point. Thanks Kate.

Important note that Dr. Jim Loi has posted some thoughts in this topic under Law and the E-Cigarette (where all these threads should have been posted).||| |||"… brute intimidation and overpowering financial bullying."

I’m afraid that isn’t so unusual in the world Naz, it could well come to that.

Apart from our other ingredients, nicotine is known to be toxic. To bring a new product to the market that has known toxic effects is very, very difficult to justify. It doesn’t matter how favourably it compares to cigarettes, it is something different and is not covered by the same laws. The rules are different, you cannot compare with cigarettes, you must either compare with the likes of snuff and snus or pharmacological nicotine replacement therapies.

The pharmacological route is long and expensive with many tests and reports required. The non-pharmacological route is not approved for smoking cessation or health purposes at all. We can’t have it all ways, it’s going to go the way of one or the other as far as I can see. Either way we will need evidence about safety before we are allowed approval.|||Thanks Kate. I got a little too excited there.

To me this just comes off as a means for WHO to cover their butts. Thankfully, they acknowledge that if testing shows the product to be safe they will go ahead and endorse the product.

Ironically enough, the Yahoo article I read left out a tidbit that you can find at WHO’s official website:

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I was wondering if anybody has experienced any backache pains or other pains after smoking a while?
It could be just me being paranoid lol|||Nope, none.
I’ve been e-smoking for about 7 weeks.

The only thing is that I’m more thirsty, so I drink more water.|||Only thing different is what sanneke said. I’ve been really thirsty and it seems my skin is dryer lately too. But that could be the wierd weather we’re having as much as anything else. But I do wake up with a very dry mouth and throat in the morning. Drinking more water lately but doesn’t seem to help much.
VP|||i have experienced pains in the joints and bones of my right hand like what i imagine arthritis feels like, but i think its unrelated and probably just a co-incidence as it is only in one hand, the one i use pre-dominately it has been doing alot of work recently and i think it is worn out. i think i just need to rest it. going to a doc tomorrow about it. i was going to mention the e-cig.|||You joint pains might well be from e-smoking. Propylene glycol is the carrier for the nicotine in our solutions; it’s 80% of the e-liquid. In the lungs, the PG breaks down to lactic acid, which the body absorbs and ultimately eliminates in your urine. But lactic acid is the same stuff that sore muscles produce. It can cause leg cramps, for sure, and might be the cause of your joint pain.

The dry throat is very common and is definitely caused by PG. PG is a humectant, meaning it draws moisture to itself. Put it on your skin and it takes moisture from the air, making for softer skin. If the air is dry, however, it draws moisture from the skin. That’s happening in your throat as you sleep. You’ve coated it with PG and the air conditioned air you’re sucking in with each snore is drier than the throat surface. Moisture moves OUT of your throat, courtesy of the PG. You awaken with a dry, sore throat.

Drink fluid before you go to bed. Drink as much fluid as you can during the day. Gargle before going to bed if that’s your habit. Clean the PG out of your throat and see if you don’t wake up with a normal — yuck! — morning mouth.||| |||I have been getting more frequent backaches since I started on this thing.
I have back problems already… But since e-smoking I seem to be a little more achy. Not enough to really bother me though.

Oh one other thing I noticed:
I’ve had a problem with acne since I was about 13 yrs old. Especially in the summer my breakouts are pretty bad.
I have had only 2-3 cigarettes in the last week for the first time in years.
My face has never been clearer.
Seriously the last time it was this clear was when I was 12… NICE

I dunno if it’s the lack of harmful chemicals, or if the PG is helping to keep my skin drier… but I like it!|||I now have such severe pain in my arm joints that I’m going to the doctor tomorrow, although I don’t even expect him to have heard of e-cigs or know any effects of propylene glycol inhalation. I’m at the point where I can’t sleep through the night without pain repeatedly awakening me. It is, as DC said, like arthritis. Shoulder is worst. Then wrist. Entire right arm, actually.

I have no cause-effect proof, only the reality that the pains began months after I began e-smoking, and the knowledge that propylene glycol breaks down to lactic acid, which then circulates in our bloodstream. Lactic acid, of course, causes muscle soreness.

I’m not sure what kind of medical merry-go-round I’ll have to travel to find the reason for the pain. But I bet the first thing the doctor says is "stop smoking that thing and see if the pain goes away." Alas, I’m pretty addicted to non-stop use of four devices throughout the day. I could get by with snus, Stonewall and a pipe, but I don’t want to. I enjoy e-smoking.

Anybody else getting new muscle soreness since they began e-smoking?|||I had a bit of an ache a while back but am not sure what caused it. I mostly esmoke vegetable glycerine now with a smaller amount of diluted propylene glycol and don’t have any trouble with that mix. Maybe you could change your mix to veg glycerine based rather than stopping esmoking.

Good luck with sorting out what’s wrong, I hope the pain stops soon.|||Thanks Kate. My own brew is done with vegetable glycerine. But to know how much nicotine I’m getting, I mix VG and a Bickford flavor and 24mg nicotine liquid. So I am getting a mix. I’ll report back on what the doctor thinks.

Heck, could be carpal tunnel syndrome. bob are you saying that nicotine increases cholesterol levels possibly? well i dont know about you all but i have said this before, i get mad bouts of hiccups occasionally when im using the ec. as soon as i take a drag..hiccup, i stop and no more, then again as soon as i take a drag…hiccup. then it stops, one hiccup per drag. anyone else experience this. like i say, it doesnt happen all the time and im not doing anything that i dont otherwise do when im vaping and it does happen

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I just bought one of these to keep my snus and e-liquid in, kinda cute and pretty cheap. sits on my bookshelf.

|||

Just wanted to say… That’s great! Very good idea…

I’ve seen them a few places for $30 US. They fit about a six pack of cokes.

You should copy this to the General forum as well.

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I just got my 24 can sample pack in from northerner, holy crap! I now have a large shoebox sized tupperware in my fridge stuffed to the bri with snus! I’m tryin the nick and johnny strong portion right now, hoping for a really good nic hit from this stuff. Does anyone know, if you buy a lot more snus than you will probably go through before the best used by date, should you just keep it in the fridge or should you freeze it? I have 44 cans at this point and am not sure I’ll be going through it all before the date on the bottom of the cans.|||Unopened cans be stored for up to two years in your refrigerator. No need to freeze them. Even opened cans can survive about a year of refrigeration past their "best used by" date. Heat is the single big enemy of snus quality. Your supply should be fine in the fridge. If you use them at the rate I do, you have a five-month supply.

(You’re a snus pig!)|||LOL, oik oik, yup I’m a snus pig for sure It’s really interesting to try out all the different kinds. I really like all of the different catch dry I have tried, and the probe whiskey kind of tastes like BBQ. BTW the nick and Johnny strong is awesome, WOW, much better nic hit. The general maxi also packs a punch, I’ve been snus taste testing all day and I have more nic in my system than I’ve had in a long time, I’m sure I’ll calm down once I’ve sampled all the flavors, if I survive it Thanx for the info TB, good to know my snus will be o.k. in the fridge, now all I have to do is find space for groceries|||I’ve never used Snus and have no idea of their availability in UK. It’s probably a bad idea for me because anything I put in my mouth gets chewed (one of these days I’ll tell the contact lens story). However, I find myself actively seeking out every post by TB about Snus, and any thread that mentions them. The idea’s growing on me.

Dang, I’ll be smoking a pipe next…|||That’s nice that you do that. Snus is not going to be sold over-the-counter in the UK, since the EU banned sales and hasn’t yet repealed that edict. Sweden was the only exception, because of its widespread use and history in that country. Most American snusers order online from The Northerner or Buysnus. Exceptional service from either. Americans have no problems with customs when importing snus. Not sure about your situation. If you ever need specific, private advice, PM me.

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I would like my ecig to have a switch off period when you have had a cigs worth! because i do tend to over puff on it lol obviously the cut of switch could be switched off for those of us who just wanna puff none stop lol|||its been discussed many times … ecig companies (china) don’t listen to us unfortunately …||| |||I use disapproving non-smokers as a timer. They sorta shame me into putting it away every now and then…||| ||| |||I’m on it, Kit. As I said, I put it away every now and then. Probably good for me…|||Until the general public accepts that e-cigs won’t hurt them - we will still be treated as a smoker - an outcast. I will say however, that many non-smokers do accept my e-smoking, only a few question it’s safety.|||I’ve stopped being quite as confrontational (with staff anyway). It was fun for a while but I’ve lost most of the social exclusion feeling I had a month ago. My standard MO these days is to have the ecig in pieces as I’m buying a beer, then assemble it as I’m being served. Everybody looks - never fails. Then I tell what it is and say that the vapour they will see isn’t smoke. Most people are interested and 4 out of 5 times they ask me to demonstrate.

Emp||| A disassembled pen style fits perfectly in the new Camel Snus oblong tin. Camel first came out with a traditional round tin, then changed to a beautiful oblong one. The battery fits diagonally in the tin, with the atomizer and cartridge pieces on each side. There’s room even for an extra cartridge and a few teabags of snus. It fits easily in a shirt pocket and would be quite a draw at a bar. Now you’re ready for a night out.

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