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Well, having been a regular user of medicinal nicotine lozenges for years and years, I can’t really see the point in Ariva and Stonewall.

They are marketed as dissolvable tobacco, and from what I can gather are highly powdered, flavoured and compressed tablets of tobacco. I suppose they are aimed at the dipping tobacco market, since the website makes great play on the fact that there’s no spitting needed! Clearly there’s no spitting with the medicinal product either, and absolutely NO TSNAs (Tobacco-specific nitrosamines - the cancer causing agents in tobacco and tobacco smoke).|||I’ve used both, so can comment with some authority. Basically, I use Stonewall because of price. Pure and simple. The things are cheaper per piece than any of the now over-the-counter nicotine replacement offerings. I have a friend hooked on lozenges and he’d save money going back to his cigarette habit. Another friend has been hooked on gum for two years and is a non-stop chewer. Too expensive! Plus, lozenges do not serve up enough nicotine to give an ex-smoker a hit, so cravings remain. Ditto for all the other offerings that max out at 4mg.

Let me add that Stonewall (I used Ariva when it first hit the market) can’t satisfy me alone, anymore than some gum or lozenge can. I still love to smoke, not inhale, a pipe. I’m using the new e-Pipe now in some non-smoking environments. When I’m about to go nuts, I use Oliver Twist bits. HEAVY nicotine hit. I’ve worked out a rotation combination that works for me, and keeps me from deeply inhaling smoke. I know the damage it did, and would continue to do.

Also let me plug snus in dry pouches. I’ll comment further on this in the special forum for snus. I use them almost non-stop, even while smoking a pipe.|||So i contacted the makers of Stonewall/Ariva and they are sending me a box of each product and blend to try out. I just called to find out where i could buy it and they offered it to me.

So far the service has been great and the lady was really nice.

-Dusty-|||I hope you enjoy them as much as I do, Dusty. The Java flavored Stonewall bits are daily fare for me. They’re the first thing I reach for when I awaken each morning and the first thing I do after completing dinner. My local tobacco store stocks them for me and I go through about four boxes a week. That’s in addition to several tins of snus and my e-smoking. (Oh, and about four pipes of real tobacco each day.) I know I could not do without Stonewall, among everything I use. I’d almost rank it first on my own list.

It did take time to get used to the bits. There’s no instant nicotine hit as with cigarettes. They take about 45 minutes to dissolve in the mouth. But they maintain a steady-state nicotine level in the blood. And they taste great (I buy java exclusively).

Post your thoughts after a few days of using them. (And you’ll hate the tamper-proof container.)|||i’ll let you know how i like them.

The NM distributor is supposed to call me on monday so hopefully i’ll actually know where to buy them.

Went to the local tobacconist to see if they carried snus, and they don’t. They did say that they should be carrying it by the end of next month, so we’ll see how that goes.

Where do you buy your snus? online or local?

Thanks,
-Dusty-|||Rat, could you give me the contact info? I wanna try, too. I’m not interested in it for regular use, but as Bob said, backup systems are always good. |||http://www.disolvabletobacco.com/

that is their webpage. i called the number that is listed on the "get connected" page.

They claim Ariva is sold at walgreens and rite-aid, but i didn’t see it here. granted i only went ot like one walgreens that was in the ghetto.

-Dusty-|||Thanks, Rat. I’ll check it out later.|||no problem at all.

-Dusty-|||Dusty: I buy snus at a Sarasota tobacco store (Tobacco Depot chain) AND online. The only Swedish varieties available in the U.S. are a limited amount from Swedish Match, the biggest snus company. I buy CatchDry Peppermint, which tastes like a breath mint, is quite weak in nicotine, and lasts for an hour or more per portion. They also sell General portions, which are somewhat stronger and have a tobacco taste. Avoid loose snus. You want portions/little teabag-like pouches.

In some parts of the country, you can now find Camel and Marlboro snus being test-marketed. I like them. Both are tasty .. and weak in nicotine. The Marlboro is extremely weak, leading some to conclude snus is being set up for failure, to keep smokers on cigarettes. There’s also SkoalDry Cinnamon, which Skoal doesn’t call a snus, but it is. It tastes like Dentyne chewing gum.

Online, from either http://www.northerner.com or http://www.buysnus.com, I order Wise snus, both tasteless and citrus/menthol (I don’t like the regular Wise flavor). These are extremely potent snus that can spin your world in 10 minutes if you combine it with, say, e-smoking. Voice of experience speaking here. I use the 6mg Wise dry portions, not the weaker 3mg ones. The tasteless is wonderful and can be used with any drink or food, without messing up the taste.

By way of comparison, a cigarette might have 1.5mg of nicotine. You suck that into your system in 10 minutes. A Wise 6mg hits your system about 10 minutes after you place it between check and gum! It’s much stronger than a cigarette and much stronger than e-smoking 24mg liquid. If the strength ever bothers you, take that one out and try again later. Or use 3mg snus.

Lucky Strike is a good snus with a tobacco taste. I also recommend snus aimed at women: Vertigo in both flavors and Romeo y Julieta Senorita. Despite what you might read on snus forums, don’t go for the strong or loose stuff that will grow hair on your shoulders. Most people won’t like it and will give up snusing. The beauty of this is not only that it provides needed nicotine, but that it does so invisibly. You can use these anywhere, anytime, and no one need know.

And the overall cost of snusing is far less than smoking cigarettes.

Hope this Snus 101 helps.It helps very much.

so the skoal dry is actually a snus? guessing it isn’t cured the same way as regular skoal?

Thanks,
-Dusty-

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Hello all, I’m so happy I found this forum. Very Informative. I ordered and recieved my first E-cig from Njoy this last week.. I would say I love it.. cut down from 2 packs a day to half a pack so far. Only thing is.. often when I inhale.. I end up coughing like crazy… My wife and a few others I’ve let take a puff have the same coughing reaction.. Anyone else coughing from the vapor inhaling??? Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong. Thanks in advance.

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!

I still get a cough with my E-cig from Njoy, tends to be on the first initial puff. Since my first E-cig from Njoy, I’ve purchased 2 different types of Minis and another pen style from E-cig.com. I don’t tend to cough with those hardly at all. I cannot tell at this time whats the difference other than the E Liquid used. Ordered E-liquid from E-cig.com and tried dripping and do not seem to get a cough from that. I think I’ll try to extract the liquid from an Njoy cartridge and drip it on one of my other cigs and see what happens. I’ll post results back here soon.|||Hi Meltrex!

Sorry to hear about your coughing problem. Have you emailed Njoy about it? Do you cough with all strengths of cartridges? Did the coughing start straight away or after a few days of starting e-smoking?

Regards,

SJ|||I understand perfectly. When that vapor hits the back of my throat, I often cough — particularly on the first inhalation. For me, it doesn’t seem related to nicotine strength (I’ve moved exclusively to 24mg nicotine now). I don’t usually continue the cough, however. A smoker soon learns whether the cough is from the throat or lungs. Short bark is throat. Rattling is lungs and a message to stop whatever is causing it!

I’ve been e-smoking a couple of months and still get the occasional throat cough. But gone now are the lung coughs brought on by cigarettes.||| |||My Ruyan does the same thing to me also. I sometimes just let the vapor sit in my mouth for a split second before doing the full inhale. That helps quite a bit, I think it may be due to the temperature… but then how hot is normal cigarette smoke compared to e-smoke?|||Thats what I’ve learned to do as well, let it sit in my mouth for a sec.. then I’ll actually let it creep out and up my nose for the inhale… so I can see the vapor smoke as well Just ordered apple flavored refills from Njoy, any reviews or has anyone tried that yet?|||After trying a few different E-cigs. I still tend to cough when inhaling the vapor. I’ve ordered and recieved some E-liquid from E-cig.com. Going to try to refill an Njoy cartridge (Tend to cough more with Njoy) I did try e-drippin 2 drops on the atomizer of the Njoy then used an apple flavored cartridge and the taste was very enjoyable. The coughing varies, I’m not sure why it happens. I have a technique when it comes to E-smoking. I cannot just pick it up and take drags off of it like I do a regular cig. So E-smoking is definately not the same as cigarette smoking. When I drag off of my E-cig I’ll keep the vapor in my mouth for a few seconds and either do a few french inhales (up thru my nose) then inhale the rest and I don’t cough at all. I have noticed letting the vapor wallow in my mouth a few seconds before inhaling deeply, reduces the coughing temendously and still get vapor from exhaling but its very subtle. I do feel the rush of a nicotine hit you might say. Similar to smoking a regular cig just not as intense.|||Meltrex: As you’ll note from other posts I’ve made on the forum, I too am coughing. At first, it was mostly with the first inhalation. Now, it’s daily and persistant into the night. As this new method of getting nicotine is evolving, we are learning that propylene glycol irritates some people’s lungs. I think I might be one of those people.

If that’s the case, then I can’t inhale vapor. Fortunately, I have my monstrous e-pipe and I must return to "smoking" it the way I do my real pipes. Puff, hold smoke in mouth, exhale. Never inhale into the lungs. This, however, requires super-strong nicotine liquid, since the nicotine must be absorbed by the less efficient mouth, not the highly efficient lungs.

And it renders my mini cig just about useless (I have an e-cigar that I’ll "smoke" the same as a real cigar; no inhaling).

I’ll test all this further, but I’m a concerned e-smoker at this moment. E-smoking is a marvelous step away from cigarette smoking, but it might not be for everyone. I’m with SJ that we might need to find a substitute liquid — even a more expensive one — than propylene glycol.|||Bob, here’s an interesting fact you may or may not be aware of regarding pipe smoking:

Cigar and pipe tobacco has a significantly raised PH level, the reason being that it enables the nicotine to be more efficiently absorbed by the mucous membranes (I don’t know why!)

I wonder if you added something to the nicotine solution to raise the PH levels, you might get a more satisfactory hit without having to use an extra-strong (and expensive) solution?

Question is though, what could you add?|||Good thought. When the secret documents of tobacco companies came to light in the U.S., it was found that numerous cigarette makers added an alkaline substance to the tobacco so that the nicotine would be better absorbed. And if you want to ruin smoking’s effect, just drink some pineapple juice while you smoke. You won’t feel a thing.

Acid mouth, reduced impact. Alkaline mouth, increased impact. I’ll do some research on a consumable alkaline substance that could be added to e-Liquid. (And I’ll make sure I’ve got my pH’s pointing in the right direction.)SJ: Cigarette makers added ammonia to increase absorption of free nicotine. But the easiest way to boost the pH and thus the absorption of nicotine is to add seawater or sea salt. That might explain the extreme saltiness found in most Swedish snus. Users assume it’s to increase snus’ useful tin life, but it also increases the nicotine absorbed from this product. I’ll experiment with adding some seawater to e-Liquid and see if I get an increased nicotine lift. I have one bottle of "medium" on hand and one of "extra high". I’ll try the medium first.

Some of the material I read leads me to believe all kinds of beneficial minerals could be added to that solution. Who knows how they would react to nicotine, but probably not much at all. We could end up with a smoking device that satisfies addiction and the daily vitamin/mineral needs! Ha.

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I came across this from e-cig.com, thought you all might find it interesting. He has given his permission to use his posts if we feel it might be helpful.

|||Very interesting!

Thanks for the heads up.

Incidentally, I showed mine to my doctor recently and he was amazed. He said he shall be advising some of his patients to take a look at it!

SJ|||When you showed it to your doctor Smokey_joe, did he remark on possible negative effects from PG or other ingredients?|||Time to update the Malaysian doctor’s comments on the E-Cig forum. Got to love this guy. I do. I’ve posted to him a few times to tell him he’s doing pioneering work. This is well worth a read. Here are the pertinent posts:

I have begun a clinical trial in Malaysia and have sought out this company products to help out in the clinical trial…So far as I can see the results is AMAZING…..As a doctor for many years..I have never seen my patients (age ranging from 18 to 94 years old both male and female) so happy with this therapy….
90% have given up smoking and 5% still smokes but much less…the other 5% failure (still under supervision) might be due to device adaptibilty problems or bad habits …sometimes you can’t change a leopard skin…hmmmm

Anyway, trial still in early stages and we actually help by supplementing different methods of Nicotine usage…I have also developed several types of liquids for the patients for their devices as well to continue their fillup (refill) program..Amazing discovery there…more of psychological trust then physical need/addiction is invovled…Will publish more as this trial continues…

The devices we use are of NJOY cigarette and Cigar…recent addition is from E-cig company E-pipe and minicig and their cigarette…lots of technicality issues but soon to be resolved and also financial impact on the patients (huge savings!!) is being assessed…All I can say is "The Future looks Bright,I gotta wear shades!"

Just forgotten to add one more thing..These Clinical trial is done Privately (not Goverment funded) and involve patient own funding…Our govt has their own clinical trial going on with pharmacotherapy headed by Big pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer….Looks like E-cigarette is being the better option at the moment

Note the the Big Pharma involvement! Tropical Bob

I will present my clinical trial findings to the government for further assessment once it is ready for presentation..right now I’m trying to convince my fellow medical doctors (skeptics..hah!) that this thing works…you’ll never know till you try isn’t it?

Thanks for your reply and sure you can post this anywhere as long it can prove to be helpful….My ministry of health will be listening to this options soon as they are desperate to fight the smoking problems here in Malaysia.In our country, smoking is prevalent among the younger groups now and that is not easy battle going on…raising the price of cigarettes doesn’t seems to help and social conformnity to this problems tends to be the issue here.

My Clinical trial will be in a study form and medical parameters will apply…Just by removing one single exponential cause of major lung disease will help the country’s economy and general health of the populations (provided the Cigarette companies does not fight back with the dirty money)…It will not only generally benefit the smokers but the whole country environment as well…

My biggest problem will be the lower income groups of people who can’t afford the existing price of this devices will still be smoking the traditional cigarette..that’s why we need to create cheaper devices rivaling that of traditional cigarettes….hopefully some the manufacturers will comply and help ….we dream of a world free of pollutions and that is now within our grasp…just the financial cost and reliability issues remains…I will give hope for this because I myself and many others in this Forum still learning to improve and contribute to make this thing work….Thanks katink for reading and thanks for your approval..that will encourage a lot of people…..

I will publish out a medical data for the public as well as for the govt…hoping for some sort of financial subsidy to help out my lower income groups of patients (I’m using my own money to subsidise my patients..free e-liquids refill for those undergoing NRT program..time for me to pay back to the society

Today was a hectic day…just came home…very tired…getting old….
Was thinking of Lions/Rotary earlier on but not wishing to bother them for they too are very tied down with their own Agenda….I will hit out directly to the Govt/MOH…that will be more effective..
Anyway..we will be approaching our Local Airlines soon i.e, AirAsia and MAS to test out their regulations..they have shown interest in this new age smoking..hopefully for the better.
Thanks for all the support and advices given..it does help a lot…and encourage me on to eliminate the scrouge evil weed influence on humankind…thanks also to E-cig company for making this all possible…My patients thank you all for all the good work done and hope for better future for all smokers and non-smokers alike…

My first beneficial results of using e-cig is (from patients data) marked and rapid improvements of incidence of Sinusitis and bronchitis…All my patients with chronic history of Sinusitis and Bronchitis has reported a significant reduction of problems/symptoms…100% acheived for phlegm/mucus reduction. Much less runny nose and sneezing bouts, that means incidence of upper respiratory tract infection has dropped drastically…in about 10 patients out of 100 reported decreased Snoring events and reported improved sleep state (much reduced sleep apnoea incidence.)..I’m very happy with this outcome as this proves our theory Vapor from the e-cig devices does somehow does help to moistuirize the ENT passages.
All the above will help to reduce medical cost of ENT problems encountered by smokers/passive smokers…the incidence of Rhinitis and ENT problems among the household members also was greatly reduced..the kids no longer had runny nose(Another beneficial effects..no doubt about that!)..that means far less pollution at home…that’s an added bonus….

I will be giving out more good news as this trial progresses ..next on will the Lung Function Test…and medical parameters like Blood Pressure and Heart rate (those are linked to Nicotine effects)….Hope this all will be informative and helpful to all….

…I’m dealing with roughly 250 patients with these devices and 340 patients without the device but on pharmacotherapy medication and large number of smokers (unconverted)..need these 3 groups to do a comparison study on effectiveness of either methods/traditional smokers….

Yes, I’m actually running these trials on my own because some of my fellow doctors are either skeptical or just plain ignorant..(maybe some are afraid even?)….Thank god at least my patients are willing to cooperate with these trial…Still a long way to go…

I am also servicing my trial patients devices to make sure it runs smoothly and teaching them the maintenance part (which takes a lot of work and education)…Developed several types of Cleaning Solutions for them just in case the device gets clogged up or malfunction..Somehow these liquids able to ‘reset’ the devices…very reassuring for my patients to have these liquids around so they use the devices without fear and assurance..If these devices fails to function, it will draw frustration and loss of confidence on my trial patients….therefore very important to teach our patients about the ‘break-in period’ once they first start to use the devices…a lot of patience needed there…I’m on call 24 hours daily to handle these irregularities just in case it happens….it is tough and tiring but in the end it is also very rewarding if I able to ’save’ my smoker patients from myriad of diseases caused by traditional cigarette…Will be posting more results as time passes…This trial will run for at least 6 months or even longer if my MOH requires..Gotta have solid proof (pros and cons) before I face them..

Hope when the time comes to face the jury,I will have enough backing from my fellow skeptics doctors and with my collective data (precious!!) to battle them….The Giant Pharmaceutical Companies and The Big Tobacco company awaits but I do not tremble at their feet or fear them but rejoiced in a renewed Battle….

Thanks to all who read this thread..I will do my very best to help as much as I could…God speed…..

Right now while I’m typing these down, I’m in a discussion with a Government representive ( a fellow politician) to meet the Minister of Health.Wish me luck….

Mammoth task or not..I chose to challenge it…becuz I’m sick of losing patients and friends to smoking related diseases….been looking for a cure..even tried traditional medicine..that was 3 years ago…failed that was…makes me even more hungrier to search for a cure..dreamt of this devices years ago but did not have the capabilities to make it..glad someone else made it….now is the time to try again…

My trial started on 2nd February 2008…the first user was me…I knew it will work somehow becuz I dreamt of this device long ago and now it has become a reality…..I have so far ‘Dissected’ 3 of my own devices to see the ‘anatomy’ of this woderful but yet simple creation…I found its weakness and its failing..dreamt of further improvement…I even welded a hypodermic needle onto the steel wool area in hope to draw more fluid to the main core but it created other host of problems(the needle breaks too easily upon inserting the cartridge…change the white wool to high absorbent sponge..(burnt badly and damage my 4th Atomiser and I got bad cough for 3 to 4 days)…Now in the process a marine algae to produce a low heat residue/easy to melt and incorporated with E-liquids purchased from this site…so far alot of gooey mess at my workstation(wife gets pretty mad at the mess I made but thank god she understands).

I have spent days and nights trying differrent formulations and lots of money (been bashing my credit cards so much until my banks called me up wondering I need extra spending limit!!)….

Anyway…The good news today is the Airline representative has shown interest and wanted a full demo…I’m gonna gather at least 20 or more E-smokers to cram into a cabin simulation to show them it will be safe to smoke in the airplane….and hopefully they will allow the sales of this e-cigs/products to fellow smokers on long haul(hope this will encourage and promote e-smoking further….)

The second good news is most likely the media here in Malaysia will allow us to advertise in newspaper and they wanted an interview soon (If that happens, I will definitely put a link here in these threads…Hope it will be soon)

Now for the Bad news…they (the MOH) wants a longer duration of this trial and our government at this moment(post election) is still in a mess…they lost a lot of seats in the Parliment to the opposition recently (first time in Malaysian History)…They are too busy but I feel I should take advantage now since they’ll do anything to win back the confidence of our people… Hope I’m right on that account….

Whoa!..It’s been a long day…thanks for reading and hope for the best tomorrow…

Do you realize that most atomisers have their own ‘character’?…some are quirky and some are cooperative..and some just refuse to mature?…well, I am dealing with all this atomisers daily…testing out almost close to 20 atomisers a day…I developed a tube pipe to test these individual pipes..simple construction for diagnostic troubleshooting as well as for repairing malfunction units…I even made one tubing for Bikers (to smoke during their long rides inside their helmets..haha..my biker friends loved it..handy for long distance rides but dried up their mouth pretty fast too so now searching for 2 way valve to connect it to a water bottle too!)..still in experimental stage

I’m having my dentist friends involved also because they will assist me for dental effects recording (to see whether rate of Tartar buildup will be slowed by our new e-smoking method)..that means less dental problems for E-smokers..

There’s a lot of work to be done and very promising things are in store…Almost all systems in our body affected by smoking is being countered by this new method..It will no doubt change a lot of things.

Those willing to convert to E-cigarrette is no doubt a person/individual cared for his/her health and surrounding environment..Who says smokers are selfish and self-centred lot!!!..I’m going all out to prove that we (smokers) are also a responsible people who wants to make a change for the better not for ourselves but for all that around us.

Happy to report a 8% increase in success rate for smokers to cease smoking traditional cigarettes…that means 98% success …VERY HIGH RATE…I’m very pleased…usually effectiveness begins by Day 2 of continual usage of the e-cig…..A 30 cigs per day smoker can stop smoking to 0 cigs in less than a week!!……

Overall Blood pressure of non-hypertensive smokers were better and much reduced heart rate to normal baseline of 70 bpm…..For Hypertensive patients on the device noted decreased pulse rate as well far happier outcome with significant amount of reduction in complications arising from reduce pollutants..i.e., less snoring , less or total absence of coughing bout with or without phlegm….,less stressful feeling and also increase in sense of well being(able to exercise more without shortness of breath)…and most important..NO INCREASE IN WEIGHT!!! in fact patient reported better weight control than those using pharmacotherapy…

I got lots of good results compared to the other two groups until my patients from the other two groups are asking for a change to the devices which at the current moment out of stock (awaiting shipment from NJOY).

This is one of the most successful trials ever conducted so far…The potential of this method is far untapped!….

My big stumbling block now will be the disclaimer found at the manual book or at NJOY website.."THIS IS NOT A CEASEATION THERAPY"..but it clearly shows that it can do that…..I am hoping to change that once my full trial presented to health ministries and hopefully the world take note of this…..Pray for my trial success and any help or suggestion will be truly appreciated…..

Someone has remove swami and dnakr post about the reliability of Njoy devices…To be fair to this company hosting this site, Not all Atomisers are built to last…Out of 20 Njoy devices, there will be almost 5 devices with Atomisers defect as well as Battery/Charger problems too…I serviced personally closed to 200 devices of Njoy brand for the last month with problems…yes Njoy is reliable but also has its fair share of problems..that’s where I learnt of each atomiser characters and faults…my own 2 Njoy devices crashes on me too..that’s why I would like to collect more brand types and do an overall review for all (if my credit card permits me!! )..becuz reliability of each devices plays a big role in my clinical trial..If it fails to perform then my patient will lose confidence and restart back smoking real cigarettes..

The e-cig .com products has it value for it’s money…take good care of the devices they will serve you well..irrespective of the brand…Remember, all this is still in it’s infancy stage..and we are the pioneers users…Be proud of that and be grateful for its technological worth…

rcbowden
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 28

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject:

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jimldk: I hope you videotaped the 20 e-smokers on the airplane. That should be posted on YouTube for the rest of the world to see. Most people I meet with my e-cigar have never even heard of such a device. We need to use media like YouTube to spread the word on a new, non-tobacco smoke product that is safe for use in "no smoking" areas.

Love your posts and the work you’re doing. You are indeed pioneering. Please do keep posting what you try — successes and failures. We can all learn and benefit.
_________________
TropicalBob

Hope they allow me to videotaped the events when the time come…shall ask for permission by Monday….Heard it will be a full cabin simulation with the extra’passengers’ and with trainee steward and stewardess…..

Thanks for your encouraging words..hope it will benefit all of you (and the world too?)..How’s your cough,Tropical Bob??…read your post at the other forum…sounds pretty nasty and might related to the ‘Propylene Glycol’ content…In my trials there was a few early on coughing bouts but it becomes less as I taught my smokers to ’sip’ mild green tea/ or suck on dried salted plums(to increase saliva production in the mouth)..it helps to reduced mild allergic response to inhaled propylene glycol….Hope it helps..if your cough persists please do see a doctor, you might be getting Bronchitis…take care bud…pm me if you need help…|||A heartfelt thanks to the good doctor who had the foresight to recognize the possible health advantages, and the courage of his convictions to establish the clinical trials. And thanks to you, Tropical Bob, for bringing this to the forum.

wb||| |||I also ride and would love to try this tubing.

Rachel|||I would love to know what kind of refill liquids he has developed, and if that is something we could do ourselves.
He also mentions a cleaning liquid for use when the atomizer stops working.

|||This doctor is definitely someone I’d enjoy meeting and working with. Here are the most recent posts, beginning with one I made to him:

Could you write a bit more about:

1. New ways to improve atomzing?

2. The new flavors you created and how you added flavoring (I’ve added pure vanilla extract — flavor and alcohol only — and improved the taste for me)?
_________________
TropicalBob

jimldk

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Malaysia
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject:

——————————————————————————–

Atomisers requires gentle handling when first started…I had lots of problem when handling it for the first time…All atomisers are built unequal, means some are shallower and some are sharper tip….means the gap between the steel wool and the cartridge end (like spark plug gap)…that will also influence the amount of air interacting with the liquid burning process..that’s why some atomiser when being used feels empty(like sucking in air only, i.e, less vapor..less volume)….that’s why Dry smoking/Drip method gives better results….So what I did was adding more contact space (narrowing the gap) without causing burns by welding/soldiering onto the steel wool an additional ’steel wool’ looks like a small bump on the tip (wish I can draw it out). It gives better burnt rate…and lots more vapor..that’s one method…the other method is still in testing mode..that involves a needle..will let you know later on if it works..

I also developed a special cleaning solutions to ‘wash out’ the atomiser every 2 days or so…it helps to mature the atomiser better..so far all my patients are using this solution (which I named CS-2) are having good results ..sustained and productive Atomisers compared with those not using it….

I also developed a plastic tubing with a mouth piece attached at one end and a connector to the atomiser for proper dry smoking method..easy to built..A clear plastic tube (like those used in the aquarium tube) but much bigger with a diameter of 1cm and length of 25 cm….wrapped some cellophane tape to fit into the atomiser at least 0.5 cm depth and sucked it out..you’ll like it..like a small electronic hookah pipe…works very well…been making this for a lot of my patients. The amount of vapors tends to be more and denser….

The Flavors I created is mainly from fruits Esther those with higher sugar content like banana..need not ferment but need it to be very ripe..I chose Cavendish due to its better aroma…I mashed up almost a full kilo to get a little bit of final product..then wrapped the mushed up banana pulp in a 5 layered muslin cloth and steam it to drip down onto a funnel like collector bowl(like those used in the lab)….later distilled it over small light fire to produce the Banana essence(the whole house will be filled with this smell)it is a long process but worth it…collected almost 6 ml of pure banana essence and mixed it with regular E-liquid (independent of strength and don’t use tasteless) with a ratio of 1:5 or 1:3 depending on the amount of aroma you want…..

Today I experimented with Black Roasted Coffee..the aroma is very heady so far but I can’t get rid of the Black coloring (still working on it..any clues? anyone?)

I will try to avoid the alcohol part by reheating the final product to deactivate the alcohol..believe it will cause some irritation to users….

Hope it helps…lots more to discover…cheers….|||The latest exchange with Malaysian doctor.

Fantastic work! I’m reposting much of what you write to http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com, where I contribute regularly.

Is there a formula we could use to create a solution for cleaning the atomizer?
_________________
TropicalBob

jimldk

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Malaysia
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject:

——————————————————————————–

Thanks for the response..was very kind of you and dnakr to update the other forum..very grateful for that ..Hope it will benefit / help you all…I’m trying hard to make this work and in the right direction and I still need clues and help from all of you irrespective whether small or big ideas…

As for the Cleaning Solution..the idea was actually started when I realised empty cartridge wasn’t really empty at all (should not waste it, recycle was in mind )…the time I did not have any E-liquid to deal with…you might laugh at this but it actually work after I modified it further…..

Don’t throw away your empty cartridge wool….it was a greasy kind of feel to it once it is nearly empty…take it out and put it into a empty 5 ml eyedropper bottle…add in 3ml of Normal saline and 1 ml of E-liquid(preferably regular flavor)….capped it with the eyedropper tip and shake it well(before each use)…you should get a light straw colored liquid with the wool acting as a ’stabiliser’..

The logic was to drop it into the atomiser(2-3drops)..dry smoking style… if the vapor production gets much less…let it soak for at least a full minute and then slowly and gently draw it (suck onto the atomiser without cartridge and mouthpiece) out..you’ll feel the steam evaporate first and then the vapor will begins… Steam will automatically trigger the cleaning process…..keep on drawing on it till you’ll feel a different kind of taste and vapor gets much less..then use a full new cartridge or drip smoke it(if you want)..you’ll see a much increase in vapor and volume as well..repeat the cleaning process 2 to 3 days later or when vapor becomes much less….You can also add 2-3 drops directly onto a half empty cartridge..it will also function somewhat the same….but that will dilute your nicotine density but I found after doing that I felt rather ‘full’ and ’satisfied’…funny feeling but does not seems to show any side effects so far and it also reduced your ’smoking’ time after that…less likely to pick up the atomiser after cleaning was done…weird but good…Try it out guys..hope you all will like it.

I was supposed to patent this but I feel it is not right to hoard this to myself..give back to the world and share as much as I can….Good luck on trying it out…Oh ,another thing …the CS(cleaning Solution) does help you to change flavors easily too…. Cheers.And then there’s this. I had to read it twice to get the idea, but now I see how the needle conducts liquid directly to atomizer. Most ingenious.

I called this the Needle Project …

You’ll need a new disposable hypodermic needle size of 25G x 5/8-0.5×16mm(means: 25 gauge and 5/8-0.5×16mm length)..should be brown/orange plastic connector….cut the plastic connector to 1/3rd with the needle intact….stick into a cartridge wool (full/half filled with liquid..mine works with Njoy..might work with other brands) in the centre and push all the way in till the needle stop..don’t puncture the cartridge..you’ll notice the wool will be pushed back and liquid will fill up but don’t worry if it also fill the cut end of the needle..you can top up later with e-liquids..now reinsert the cartridge with the modified needle into your atomiser..don’t worry, it won’t be burnt…start smoking…you’ll feel a sudden change in the flow of vapor..cooler to the tip of the tongue and far more dense….please try…you’ll like it…250 patients of mine love it..far superior but it can consume a bit more liquid..it is like dry smoking but with the cartridge inserted and if the ‘fuel’ gets low..jerk it like a pen running out of ink..you’ll get a instant refill automatically….I find it far better in burning up th e-liquid and producing better vapor….

Second tip…keep your container cap(mine is the Njoy type) and cap it over your mouthpiece tip when you are not using the device …use it like a pen cap (same principle to prevent your pen/marker from drying up)and you’ll be conserving moisture within the atomiser(save losses of liquids through the mouthpiece)..you’ll be surprised it actually help in producing your first billow of vapor….

More tips to come..as fast as I can discover it….Let me know if you have any problems…cheers….From Doc. Jim.Loi., Malaysia. As you see fit, for all of our benefit, it would be nice if you could keep us updated on what you learn about (1) do-it-yourself liquid or liquid modification, and (2) hardware issues you encountered and how you dealt with them. You have been THE pioneer out there and we would appreciate your continued counsel.

If a government won’t listen to you, well .. we will!Dr. Loi: I saw that Heritage Vegetable Glycerine is sold on Amazon, so it could be ordered online. And my thinking right now is that the liquor additive is helping clean the atomizer, so I will continue using it until somebody tells me I’m ruining (1) lungs, (2) atomizer. I just add Kahlua liquor until the viscosity is what I need for vaporizing the same as with e-liquid.

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Big thumbs up for snus as part of a harm reduction or quit program. Last year, I used Swedish snus and Kahlua cigars to stay off cigarettes 85 days. Whoopee, huh. This year, snus have been part of a quit-cigarette plan that is now more than six months along. The e-Cig e-Pipe is the latest addition in my plan.

A few words of advice about snus: The standard, wet Swedish product is VERY yucky tasting. Anyone who likes that must have severely damaged taste buds. You’ll spit just to get the taste out of your mouth. Move to the dry flavored pouches. I began with snus like Catch (now sold in my local tobacco store in the U.S.) and then moved down in nicotine hit to a product called XQs. XQs had a coffee flavor I found refreshing and the pouch was so small it was invisible under the lip. I liked it. So, naturally, the company went out of business and I can no longer get my favorite.

But American companies are testing snus now and I found Skoal Dry Cinnamon to be acceptable. I look forward to trying the Camel products .. just haven’t seen them for sale yet. (Skoal wet pouches are dreadful, in my opinion, so I’ve stopped trying them. I’ve also chatted with too many toothless chewing tobacco addicts to even think of using that product). Not long ago, I tried dry Lucky Strike snus. Not good. Some snus products taste so bad they enduce nausea. I’ve had to throw some cans away after repeated tries.

I use snus daily, and they’re about the only solution acceptable in, say, a movie theater. They do not draw ANY attention to the user. Can’t say that for my e-Pipe, which makes me the focus of conversation.

Just search "snus" on the Internet and you’ll find the outlets that ship snus worldwide. They’re not expensive, so mistakes are not costly ones as with some electronic smoking purchases. Do NOT start with the oversize pouches or you’ll most likely give up with the notion that only hard-core chewing tobacco freaks would enjoy such a product. Try several dry, mini portion snus. They can complement your e-smoking.|||tropical bob, you are the man! Had you not mentioned snus on this forum i would have never discovered such a wonderful product. I just got my shipment from the northener.com . i ordered some wise mini dry pouches- 6mg nicotine they are great! indeed an excellent companion to e-smoking.|||TB i forgot to ask you, how long should i keep a snuss pouch in my mouth? maximum time? thanks :?|||I tried Camel SNUs and liked the Frost flavor (minty). The Camel portion seem to be a little larger than many Swedish minis so I’ve ordered some real minis after reading up on the SNUs users forum at http://www.snuson.com/

Also found some interesting articles on the Marlboro SNUs that are or will be on the market, speculating on why they have so little nicotine….
http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking … eless.html
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/5/1/9|||Grimmy, leave a snus in place as long as you want. I average an hour or so for most. The strong ones I might leave only 30 minutes. A CatchDry Peppermint can stay in place easily an hour or more and still have excellent taste. I’m due to place an order now, and Wise snus are always on my list. Always. The 6mg Wise tasteless snus is often the only snus that seems right — good nicotine delivery without becoming the dominant taste. I like the Wise Citrus/Menthol also.

Jamie, I liked the Camel Spice and Frost, but they’re not yet sold in my area. The Marlboro snus was very weak, but extremely sweet in use. I don’t like the snus from P. Lorillard. Haven’t yet tried the Tourney and Grand Prix snus from Vector. And Philip Morris has a new one just out in Sweden, called 1847. It will be on my next order. All U.S. Big Tobacco companies view snus as a very important part of their future.

P.S. Jamie: You might run across some of my posts on the snuson site. I’ve been there a long time. But I’m not one of those guys who thinks a person needs to tuck tobacco under their upper lip that will sprout hair on their shoulders. There’s lot of posturing on that site. Big Man talk! That doesn’t help the cause of quitting smoking. Use what you enjoy.|||This sounds really interesting… I’m going to put in an order from some snus today. You don’t spit when you use them, right?
It seems like it would be a good back up for e-cigarettes.

I tried something called a "flavor pack" one time. I was cinnamon flavored. Don’t remember the brand but I know it was a major one like Skoal. The same thing as dry snus probably. Bought it at a Circle-K or some other gas station. I haven’t been able to find them since. Liked them a lot though.

I did buy a pack of Oliver Twist the other day.. I got a can of Sunberry (About $5 US), and a variety pack with 6 flavors, 2 bits of each flavor. ($0.50 US). I like them. All the flavors are good.. I want to try the Stonewalls too. I’m going to check Walgreens for them today.

Thanks Bob for introducing me to these things… I really want to stop smoking cigarettes and I think it will help a lot.

This is going to sound silly but I also bought some of those plastic cigarette filters that cut down tar and nicotine. I figured it would help break my routine a bit and get me used to plastic and lighter smoke in anticipation of my e-cigar arriving. |||Okay I put in an order at http://www.buysnus.com.
I got:

Mocca Anis Mini Portion 1 pack
Offroad Limited - Coffee Vanilla Portion 1 pack
Taboca Snus 1 pack
Vertigo Bahama Velvet Mini 1 pack

I didn’t know what to get so I got what sounded tasty…
Under $13 for the order…
I’ll let you know what I think of them.|||Please do. That’s a pretty fine order. I’m a fan of Offroad Coffee/Vanilla and Vertigo Bahama Velvet. Just finished (yesterday) a first tin of Tobaca and can’t say I liked it — but it’s very powerful. I haven’t tried that Mocca, but just finished a tin of Mocca Tobacco (super strong nicotine hit) and I like Mocca Pomegranate on a regular basis.

The tobacco pouches you mentioned were SkoalDry Cinnamon, one of my favorites. I order a roll of five online. Tastes like chewing gum, eh?

And Stonewalls (java or wintergreen) are regulars in my rotation — first thing in the morning, after each meal. These all add variety to the quitting effort. And you won’t go crazy when your e-cig dies on you and you’re waiting for replacement parts.

Oh .. no, you don’t spit. There’s no need to. Just tuck the little pouch between cheek and gum and go about your business. I do NOT use my upper lip, as hard-core snusers of loose tobacco do. And I don’t do loose. Nasty stuff, as far as I’m concerned.

Also keep in mind that if you don’t immediately take to a flavor, put the tin in the refrigerator for a few days, use another brand, and then return. It’s often better the next time around.||| |||Can’t say they taste like root beer (I, too, like that soda, along with Cream Soda). The Wintergreen is minty; the java does a fair coffee imitation. They are quite sweet, unlike the traditional Swedish snus, which are salty and bitter.Ah so wintergreen refers to a cool freshness as opposed to the actual wintergreen plant! Still sound nice tho, might give them a try…er if I can get my girlfriend to let me (I know… whipped ) cos she wants me completely off nicotine by next year! But I can’t see it happenin that soon! Thanks TBYes. That’s required U.S. government BS. It’s tobacco. It causes cancer. And the government warning was indeed for chewing tobacco, but no one had any idea what a snus was! So it got the same warning as dip. Believe me, they are not even close to the same or similar health hazards — to any part of your body.

Read some studies of Swedish snus if your mind is troubled in any way.Hey guys/gals , new person here to both e-cigs and snus. Anyone want to sell me a can of snus (in the US) so I can give it a try before i decide to order 5 cans and not like it? I’ll gladly pay for shipping. Please PM me, thanks

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Hi,

First I would like to quickly introduce myself - I am Tom, and I live here in the UK down in Exeter… At the moment I don’t own an e-cigarette, and the main reason for my joining is to get a little advice on what to buy…

I know it may sound very strange, but I have never actually ‘really’ smoked, and I would just be e-smoking to experience - a) taste, b) what the niccotine does ??! and c) for the social aspect - a lot of my friends smoke, and the e-cigarette seems the safer way to ‘join in’…

Anyway, I wondered if any of you could advise on what to buy - I’m looking to spend 拢20-30 (not much, I know!), and it looks like e-cig.com is my best bet. But, what should I get - a mini-ecig, an e-cigarette, an e-cigarello, a pipe or what? Iwould also ask if anyone has bought the cigar at http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10100 - just wondered what it was like?? What cartridges does it take?

Help greatly appreciated - thanks, Tom |||Hey Tom and welcome to our world,

There’s a category on this blog for product reviews, and you’ll find some good information there. I’ve posted my impressions of both E-Cig’s e-Pipe and DealExtreme’s e-cigar. The e-cigar is too new to make statements about reliability, but it appears to be a well-made product at an incredibly low price ($34, free shpping for the fully automatic model).

I do wonder about you taking up "smoking" however. Addiction to anything is not desirable. Nicotine is no different. You might be one of those people who works from the bottom up, starting with vapors and ending up with unfiltered Camels! The anti-smoking people will use you as a poster boy to outlaw these electronic delivery systems.

As for the nicotine in these: There is a tickle when the vapors hit the back of the throat, much like that experienced when using a medically-approved nicotine inhaler. It actually makes me cough sometimes. It’s irritating to the throat. The throat is trying to tell me something, but I’m not listening at the moment. I get no "rush" from these, just some lightheadedness if I overdo my whole nicotine routine.

Many of the nicotine cartridges are almost tasteless. Like smoking air. No one has yet proclaimed here, "Boy, this is just like smoking a real cigarette (cigar, pipe)." It isn’t. Not even close. What we’re hoping is that this is a safe way to continue addiction, with some side pleasure perhaps. And that future products will be more tasty. Or else this will help us finally wean our bodies from nicotine dependency.

My initial reaction is that e-smoking is inferior to everything else I do: snus, nasal snuff, and especially the pipe tobaccos I so enjoy. But at least I can do e-smoking without my wife waving her hands at me. That counts for something. Good luck and the DealExtreme cigar is about as inexpensive a start as you can find. Personally, if I were you, I’d avoid nicotine and its addictive powers. There’s a lot to lose, very little to gain by taking this up.|||Hi Tom,

Thanks for joining us and for your post.

I second everything that Bob said in his post above, and I am also a little worried about what you wrote because I’m not sure you understand the nature of nicotine and nicotine addiction.

Allow me just to list just a few problems with nicotine alone (forgetting all the other chemicals in cigarette smoke for the time being.)

1. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man. Some people can become hooked in a couple of days of nicotine use - a much shorter time-span than heroin, cocaine and amphetamines.[/*:m:35efk3ft]
2. Nicotine is a very powerful neurotoxin. Although much research has been carried out into how nicotine affects the brain, there is still a huge quantity of unknowns.
   Recent research has highlighted some disturbing possibilities, including some tests which indicate that nicotine can "rewire" parts of the brain - possibly permanently and irreversibly. In particular, the "reward" centers of the brain seem to be affected, possibly causing the user to gain less satisfaction out of life than non-smokers.[/*:m:35efk3ft]
3. The younger you start smoking the greater the impact will be - almost all the research into nicotine shows that the younger brain is especially susceptible to nicotine, and that mental illness in later life is far more likely for those who start smoking young.[/*:m:35efk3ft]
4. A nicotine addiction is for life - well for many that is - even those who have quit for years will crave from time to time - a nicotine addiction can truly dominate your life![/*:m:35efk3ft]
5. Nicotine is addictive! I know I’m repeating myself, but you must understand what is meant by addiction. When you hear people talk about their experiences quitting, you’ll often find people are quite glib and humorous, especially those that have failed.
   This attitude belies the fact that for most smokers that want to quit, actually doing so is very hard, and every instance of failure can weigh very heavily on the heart indeed.
   Couple this with the fact that tobacco smoke can cause a hideous slow death, and you’ll start to understand that the psychological make-up of a smoker can become very mixed up.
   So please think about how powerful a substance nicotine must be that people will continue to ingest it even as they are well aware of the consequences.[/*:m:35efk3ft]

Now, you might think that what I have written above is a bit daft coming from someone who moderates a board devoted to e-smoking.

I see e-smoking as a third-way. We are talking harm reduction here - there are many smokers who simply will never quit nicotine, and for these people e-smoking IMO is a valid option.

If I were you I wouldn’t even buy a zero-nicotine e-cigarette, I would just stay clear of the habit totally. Do not feel left out by your smoker-friends.

As it happens, I think they will come to respect your ability to resist. I think back on my social group when I started smoking, and many of the characters that I remember most fondly were the non-smokers.

I understand your interest in smoking - all smokers do, implicitly - but I truly wish I had had the above information when I started, and I don’t believe I would have started if I had.

Hope this helps,

SJ

PS, for further reading, do have a look at the wikipedia article on addiction, in particular the section on physical dependency.|||This is my first post, and I would like to say that I am very impressed with the responses from TropicalBob and Smokey_Joe.

I really hope that Tom will follow their advise and stay far, far away from tobacco products. Being a smoker of 30 years, I too wish I would have known what these products did.

Please Tom listen to them and any other smoker - DO NOT start something so stupid as smoking. It is not worth the risk - nor is it worth your life.

My father died a slow and painful death because of cigarettes and I pray I will be able to quit before it happens to me.

It has only been a week, but I have quit smoking cigarettes and now only e-smoke. My plan: to slowly decrease my nicotine levels so that I may quit altogether.

Tom, please do not even think about trying this, it is so not worth it…

Rachel|||Absolutely Rachel, and I’m sorry that you had to go through the pain of losing your Father due to cigarettes.

It is an astonishing thing that almost everyone has a relative/friend/loved one that has died from smoking, and yet people still do it.

I think it’s a testament both to the power of the nicotine addiction and to adolescent naivety.

It’s very important that we make this clear to people who visit this site the nature of nicotine, since many will be in Tom’s position and thinking about taking up the habit via the e-cig. Many people just do not understand what nicotine is and what it does.

I mean, I can remember before I started smoking thinking "gosh, why on earth don’t people just stop smoking. How hard can it be to not do something?" And then I started smoking, and pretty quickly I understood!

What would happen to someone like Tom if, after becoming hooked via an e-cig, the e-cig was banned? Would they have to start smoking? As you said, it’s just so not worth it.

I’m glad to hear you’ve done your first week. Will you keep us updated and tell us more about your experiences? Especially with regard to quitting, since that is pretty uncharted territory.

Good luck and thanks for joining us,

SJ|||Thank you all…

I really have taken on board what you have said, and I would like to thank you all for your comments; a lot to think about. I can safely say that you have, certainly at this stage, deterred me from taking up the habit. As the technology becomes more well-known, I think there will be plenty more people in the same position as myself.

I think, realistically, at some point, I will ‘try’ smoking, whether it be electronic or with tobacco, purely out of curiosity, but that can wait…

So, I think I’ll leave it for now, but, if it’s okay, still take part in the forums…?

Cheers, Tom|||Goodness! We certainly get an all round view here
Personally I think e-cigs would be disappointing to a non smoker, so why bother. I imagine that only those already addicted to nicotine can appreciate the more gentle and safer side of the e-cig. We can appreciate no longer coughing or not smelling terrible but still being able to"scratch the itch". I took up the e-cig after having been quit for a whole year, but only because there was a gaping hole in my life which the e-cig has filled. Having said that, I fully understood that I would re-addict myself on nicotine. How much better it would have been never to have started smoking in the first place. Those who have never smoked feel perfectly complete without tobacco. Worst still, if the e-cig gets banned I will be on nicotine gum or patches to try to wean off again.
Put it another way. Would you inject heroine just to see what you were missing? I wouldn’t!|||I think in case you do not smoke, you should not start consuming nicotine, no matter whether its e-cigarette, nicotine chewing gum or other nicotine sources.

We clearly advise our customers that e-cigarette is not suitable for non smokers. The device is intended as replacement or (according to the chinese inventors) to quit smoking. However, we do not recommend e-cigarette as a device suitable to quit smoking for legal reasons.

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Here’s a link to Knutselpeter’s How to … videos.

Includes -

How to use a Classic Cartridge

Dropsmoke without cartridge

Liquid extraction

Cartridge refill

Fill Classic Cartridge Complete ,also for e-pipe

Refill Mini Cartridge

A little movie on how to use the e-pipe

Offici毛le "Hoe ……….. ik?" filmpjes - FreE-Smokers|||Good Idea Kate … Lets just post here instead of Linking …

|||That should be a sticky for all the newbies.|||They will get a good nicotine rush if they slip with that needle.
|||Don’t worry, Gnu, the Obvious Advice Department has already issued an advisory saying, "Try not to do that." |||I bought a syringe with a needle. Showed the pharmacist what I was going to do with it first. When I got home, I couldn’t extract the liquid from the bottle because the liquid was too thick for the size needle that came with the syringe. The needle package says 3ml 25 G 1 1/2. After just dripping the liquid into the carts, I don’t think the needle is that important. But I am curious, what size to ask for - for the needle to be big enough. I love the part in the video when he squishes all the cartridge fillings down to almost nothing.|||Jane, I found if I tilt the bottle it will take some juice. Now that I think about it, the nurses at the doctors office turn the medicine almost upside down to draw the liquid into the syringe.|||Janet … I would suggest at least a 20g (g = gauge) needle and if you can find 18g, that would be ideal.|||Thanks Katy - I wonder what turning the liquid upside down has to do with it. Guess I’ll have to ask a nurse. They don’t turn me upside down whenever they draw blood.

Thanks Cash, I’ll keep this in mind next time I go syringe shopping. I have found though in the meantime, that the liquid doesn’t really take that long to travel to the end of the cartridge so it’s not really that important if I have the needle. I just like having aaaallllll the accessories to feel complete!

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Hi to All!

This is my first post. I would like to thank you all for this forum as I have found it very helpful and encouraging.

I found this forum after doing a search for e-cig’s and I’m really glad I did! I live in the USA and I saw a piece about e-cig’s on the news (a Boston channel which I noticed you have a part of the trascript posted here, or an article by the same news channel). While the fact that the three people who used this product did not find the e-cigarette to be a good enough substitute to quit cigarette smoking did discourage me I decided I wanted to learn more anyways and thats why I did the online search.

I have decided to try using an e-cig and try to give up "real smoking" if I can. I have wanted to quit forever, but I can tell you that after 8 hours of going without a cigarette, during a delayed flight, I found myself almost homicidal and very afraid to try quitting. I smoke about 25-30 cigarettes a day, I’ve done so for about thirty-plus years. But these products have inspired me to try.

I do have a few questions. If any of you would be so kind as to share your knowledge/experience with me I would be grateful as I am planning on putting in an order this weekend.

1. for those of you who no longer smoke "regular cigarettes" have you experienced any weight gain associated with traditional quitting?

2. I don’t have ton’s of money to spend, and until I feel that this will work for me do not want to spend more than 100.00 American dollars. I was considering the e-cig but have found through lot’s of online reading they do not have good batteries, can you purchase a battery from another "brand" that works better that will fit the e-cig? Which products are interchangeable?

3. About how long would it take for the products to arrive in the US if I ordered with the cheap shipping from e-cig?

4. I understand this is a different experience than traditional smoking, but just how difficult is it to leave the house for a long period of time and have enough batteries, cartridges, ect. and what would that entail?

5. Has anyone tried the car battery? How long would it take for the car battery to adequately charge an e-cig?

6. Finally, I was considering trying dealextreme too, but the charger doesn’t look like it works with American electrical outlets, am I correct? If so, can I buy a converter, how much does this go for?

Thanks a bunch for all the information you have made available to me already,
Happy e-smoking,
Pammie |||Pammie: I can’t answer everything, but I’ve been where you are! I, too, was a 30-a-day cigarette smoker. It was beginning to take a health toll on me. Persistant cough, etc. Then my work place decided to go smoke-free for the entire property. I quit cigarettes a month before that began.

And I threw everything at this attempt, having failed numerous times with all the expensive nicotine-replacement products, hypnosis, shots, you name it. I knew I wouldn’t do "dip" because that’s just disgusting and should be relegated to history, but almost everything else was an option.

I began with Swedish snus. These can be very small, dry, white pouches that you place between teeth and cheek. Less than $4 a can if you order online. America hasn’t really learned to snus yet, but with new Camel and Marlboro snus products being tested, that education is coming fast. I still use snus every day. Many, many taste dreadfull, so if you try some, order only the small portions aimed at women - Romeo y Julieta, CatchDry Peppermint, Wise citrus/methol in 3mg dose.

Next in order of use is Stonewall dissolvable tobacco bits. These can be purchased at many tobacco shops in America, plus CVS and Walgreen’s. They are the size of breath mints and dissolve completely in your mouth in about 45 minutes. Each Stonewall is 4mg; each Ariva (its sister product) is 1.5mg. You’ll need the Stonewalls. I favor the java flavor.

I doubt you’ll try inhaling tobacco as nasal snuff, but that was tobacco’s first use. I tried it and it doesn’t produce much of a nicotine hit, but is very interesting in its own way. I do it sometimes just for the glorious smell and taste. Use very little and sniff it; never snort it. Very little is all you need in each nostril.

Finally we come to electronic devices. I bought an e-pipe first from e-Cig and still use it daily, after two and a half months. Bought an e-cigar from DealExtreme next ($26 with free shipping). Still use it daily and it’s held up fine. Then I recently added some mini cigs from DealExtreme for $36 a pair with 12 cartridges and charger.

For all of these, I refill with e-Liquid ordered from e-Cig. Flue-cured tobacco flavor is fine; chocolate is excellent at certain times of the day.

I do NOT have battery issues. I simply keep a battery recharging in one or the other of my devices at all times. I don’t care if I’m puffing a cig or the pipe. I always have a battery (the pipe battery is good for days of use). I did have a new battery for the mini cigs fail immediately and got a half-price refund.

You do not have to spend a fortune to find out if this is for you. Personally, I’m not sure I could stay off the cigarettes I’m so addicted to (off 246 days so far) just using my e-smoking devices. That said, I won’t try. Why try? Why not use everything I enjoy, as long as it doesn’t harm my health or irritate others?

I wish you success. It’s the hardest thing you’ll ever do, we’re all told.

Some links you might want:
http://www.dissolvabletobacco.com You can order Stonewall online, 5 packs of 20 for $10.
http://www.northerner.comSwedish seller of online snus; look only at dry, white, mini portions.
http://www.dealextreme.com Search for "electronic cigarettes" and see what they have. Charger is European. Adaptor at almost any big box store or Radio Shack.
http://www.e-cig.com The undisputed, world heavyweight champion of nicotine liquid you’ll need for refills. Look at all those flavors and strengths and sizes! Check out their forum, too.|||Geez, I didn’t answer part of your questions:

Weight gain wasn’t a problem, really. I’ve added five pounds, but I have a slight-to-normal build, so it’s no big deal. I’m not any hungrier now.

E-cig is a great company, in my opinion.

Took 9 working days for me to get order sent for $9 via China Post.

E-smoking is a pain in the butt, just as regular smoking is, when you’re going on. But instead of counting cigarettes remaining in your open pack, you’ll race around gathering up a battery and cartridge — just in case. Frankly, I more often pass time with a snus or Stonewall after eating out, or watching a movie. The e-smoking devices will still attract unwanted attention in America. If you like talking about, and defending, them, take ‘em with you.|||Thanks so much TropicalBob

246 days without a butt sounds WONDERFUL to me! I dream about telling Phillip Morris what to do with those Marlboro’s, lol !!!

I was considering trying nicotine gum as an addition to my plan, but the mints sound like a possiblity I would consider. I have never smoked anything but cigarettes, so a pipe or cigar would not be for me.

Anyways, thanks for your quick response, much appreciated

Pammie

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I would have thought that most smokers would choose another method for quitting than the e-cigarette, which seems to me to be an alternative for people that want to carry on with their habit but without the damaging health effects caused by tobacco smoke.

In fact, given that "e-smoke" delivers nicotine in much the same way as cigarettes, it may be harder for smokers to break the habit using the e-cig than by using Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) products.

The reason for this is that the nicotine in NRT is absorbed through the mucous membranes in the mouth, nose and throat, not through the lungs - resulting in a much longer time for it to reach peak levels in the bloodstream. Smokers don’t get the same "hit" with NRT that they get with smoke, and it is the "hit" that provides much of the psychological addiction to nicotine.

However, on further analysis, the e-cig may offer one distinct advantage over NRT products: Cost.

In the UK, USA and Europe, NRT is roughly equivalent in price to smoking cigarettes. Although the initial outlay for an e-cigarette is quite large, over a relatively small period of time it becomes far cheaper - especially if you refill your own cartridges with nicotine solution.||| |||Hey Woody,

Have you thought about getting some from Ruyan? it may be a little more expensive, but I suspect they will have done more R&D to get the flavor right than the generics.

There are absolutely masses of suppliers, as I’m sure you’ve found out. I’m afraid i’m still too new to this game to tell you with any certainty where to go for it.

Also, have you considered that it may be the quality of the e-cigarette itself that affects the flavor?

Thanks for joining up and I look forward to chatting with you more!

SJ||| |||I don’t think the e-cigs, cigars, pipes are for quitting, either, even though that promise has obvious advertising and sales appeal. Is there a smoker out there who hasn’t tried something like "One Step at a Time"? The idea is to gradually reduce nicotine intake until you’re at zero. Then quit!

Same for quit methods that reduce daily cigarette use.

At some point, the smoker goes nuts and returns to his/her regular cigarettes, and usage quickly returns to whatever previous level existed before the quit attempt. All of these methods can be analyzed while listening to Mick Jagger sing "Ah cain’t get no-oh satisfaction."

In the U.S., there’s a cigarette called Quest that offers a unique step-down method. The story is that tobacco genes were altered in a lab so that plants with the altered genes did not produce nicotine. The leaves could be treated as any other tobacco leaves. The product could be smoked like any other cigarette. And Big Tobacco was so upset by this that it threatened anyone growing nicotine-free tobacco with bankruptcy or worse. It even stopped plants being grown in South America. Only the Amish showed no fear of Big Tobacco. They agreed to grow the plants.

There are three strengths of Quest, from regular to no-nicotine at all. I began the program, buying the far-more expensive regular Quests to begin with. Then I stepped down. And smoked more cigarettes. Then I went to no-nicotine Quests. I drew in smoke, saw it exhaled, but felt absolutely no "kick" or satisfaction of any kind. Yep, these are about as useful as herbal cigarettes for quitting. Not useful at all.

I returned to my favorite cigarettes.

I believe trying to quit with an e-cig will have similar results. Best to look at these new products as part of a healthier, more sustaintable lifestyle. Sustainable is the buzz word now for the environment. It can be the same for smokers. We need to find a routine that doesn’t involve inhaling tars into our throats and lungs, but satisfies a life-long addiction and habit. I have high hopes an e product might find a place in my own sustainable, harm-reducing routine.

But the jury is still out.|||I agree e-cigarettes are an alternative to cigarettes, not a way to stop smoking. E-smoking does seem to help some people to stop, though. For me, it didn’t help me to stop, but it did help me to smoke less.|||From research I’ve been doing, I believe claims of helping smokers quit will get a seller in dire straits. It won’t be the FDA that comes after them, but the Federal Trade Commission. That agency regularly slaps quit-smoking hucksters with million-dollar fines and puts them out of business. It has one simple mandate for all ad claims: Prove it. And the FTC means prove it with unbiased, in-depth studies. Those don’t exist for e-smoking devices. The fact that your Cousin Fred hasn’t had a cigarette since he got his e-cig doesn’t count.

On the other hand, if e-cigs are advertised as an "alternative" to cigarettes, then they might be considered a nicotine delivery device and need medical equipment status. That means years of expensive research and time spent waiting for federal approval. As things stand now, there is no place for nicotine as a recreational drug. There is no alternative to cigarettes, as far as the government is concerned. There’s only unregulated tobacco products and Big Pharmaceutical’s smoking cessation failures.

Hard to say where this will fall as far as legal sales in the U.S. are concerned. My hope is that they somehow slip through unregulated while federal agencies try to figure out which department should ban or strictly regulate them. I’m just glad I got my cigar and pipe and have been enjoying them for more than a month now. I’m stocking up on e-liquid — just in case.|||Obviously, it will vary from person to person. My experience with E-smoking has just helped me cut down on real ciggs. Once I pick up the E-cig and start puffing.. I don’t stop.. next thing I know.. 20 minutes have passed and I’m forcing myself to put it down.. Then, I have the feeling of wanting a real cigg.. several times now… I’ll end up smoking a real cigg after the 20min e-puffing.. and get light headed and a daze type feeling for a little while… OVERDOSING symptom I’m assuming. I am planning on going totally E-ciggs for my nicotine needs. Just need to get regular ciggs out of my mind and reach. One good thing after the E-puffing.. The real ciggy tastes nasty and doens’t give me the pleasure as before. For all these companies advertising E-ciggs will help you quit smoking just to boost sales is definately a mistake IMO. They need to keep it straight as a smoking alternative for nicotine.

I find it fun to use the E-cig for the most part.. Taking a few short puffs to get a decent amout of vapor to hold in my mouth, I will allow some to escape and then inhale up thru my nose and then back out my nose. Will repeat until all the vapor is gone from my mouth.. By doing this I get a cool feeling type vapor sensation around my nose.. AWESOME feeling to me…lol Its like zoning in on something once you do it a few times.. very relaxing.|||That was called "French inhaling" when I was a teen. You’d suck in a mouthful of smoke, part your lips and then sniff the smoke into and through your nose. I’d almost forgotten. We spent hours practicing ..

Today, I can blow vapor rings from my e-pipe.

Times change. Fun doesn’t.|||Well, at LEAST I quit the stinky cigarettes, so I do consider that I have "quit smoking." I just have another nicotine delivery system that resembles smoking. To each their own how they look at it, if you ask me. I use e-cigs exclusively and actually enjoy it more than I ever did smoking. (Gawd, I didn’t think that was possible.) My husband is a NON-smoker and he considers me quit.

I think eventually Uncle Sam will try and get his hands on it since it is a nicotine delivery system. It’s just a matter of time.Our best defense is to preach the word far and wide, so more people will know something about it when the gov starts looking at it.At least I wasn’t sick with my first e-cig as I seem to remember being with my first real one all those years ago!!!! lol actually hard to control e puff ….

sometime u will feel is it I smoke even more?answer is yes! but u reduce the number of real cig intake .

while I have my e cig , my one pack of real cig can last me 4 days or even 5 ! because I constantly e puff.

bad point , u will noticed u do everytime have to epuff..compare last time

if u wanna smoke have to go smoking area.this also prevent u to light up again .for some smokers…cos they find it troublesome.

but overall I honestly have to comment each got their pro and con here about e smoking and real smoking

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its probably not news to some of you but it was to me. e-cig, e-cigarette, e-cigarello, e-pipe e-cigar etc are all trademarked by Dr. Sam Han of e-cig.com notoriety.^*1

these are the terms that many of us, but more importantly the manufacturers use to describe our much mooted product.

we all remember that sony won the portable audio cassette player naming competition and their term became ubiquitous for that product much to the ire of panasonic et all, who could never scrabble^庐 to coin the better term. we all used ‘walkmans’ regardless of make, though any maker marketing their player as such would fall afoul of sony’s lawyers. toshiba tried "the walky" and aiwa - "cassetteboy". but nothing stuck.

So when is Dr Sam going to be cashing his chips? and why are the myriad of electronic cigarette manafacturers who use his TM’s heedless to a pending law-suit?

I barely understand (under-statement) the patent issue and recieve only nonsensical or veiled replies from the manufacturers/re-sellers i question if i recieve any at all. questions i have asked on the forum go unanswered.

so what’s the deal? why is it that the TM and patent are treated as non-issues? is a TM meaningless unless its an R? Does ruyan only own an appearence patent and not the one on technology? or are they just biding their time? I know that they tried to sue Njoy and revelle in the states, but what was the outcome? anyone ever hear?

*1: E-cig expressions

edit: woops; about the html in the title. hoped it would recognise it. cant re-edit that now. are "[]" noticed there also?|||so 3 weeks later, 88 views and not one response…am i off-base asking these questions or just dont anybody know the dealio?|||It would be interesting to know.

Only thing I would say to it, the Chinese are a little Lax on copyright laws, hehe

Not like it is here in the states.|||yeah i realise that intellectual property law is relaxed to say to say the least, but these companies do have the right to prosecute under the european and american legal systems as proved by ruyan’s case against njoy and revelle.|||They can sue, but I dont think it would get far.

Its hard to sue china, unless they want to be sued.

NOW, if a compnay here, or in the UK started getting big off of the use of E-Cig, or something, THEN you will see the wigs/lawers scurry out from the woodwork.|||Strangely, China has 3 separate patents…If you only have 2 you have nothing…Coversely a trademark over here, or Patent, will obviously not dissuade the Chinese from reproducing an item…Thus the $19.99 Full Set Of Callahan Golf Clubs…LOL|||A trademark (TM) is meaningless unless it’s registered.

But I’m not sure whether a third party can go ahead register a term that is already in use as a trademark by somebody else.

I.e. Dr. Sam could register his terms properly and then go chasing after his competitors, but I don’t think they could register those terms and then go after Dr. Sam |||

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