e-Cigarettes - Electronic Cigarettese - e-Cigarette-Blog.com

I am going on a lengthy road trip this summer. I want to take my lap top so I can do my work part-time while i am on the road, and my friend is driving. We also have ipods, cell phone chargers, etc to use in the car.

I've been looking at inverters for my laptop. Now my friend mentions we should get a splitter for the cig lighter outlet and then plug the inverter into that. Anyone know if this will be ok?

Mainly I'm worried about burning up my alternator/battery and/or my electronical devices. How much wattage can a cig lighter deal with?

1 year ago

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Usually they will handle 5 amps which is 12 x 5 = 60 watts. They have a 5 amp fuse, so you won't overload anything. You may be able to get a bigger amperage one as I think most cigarette lighter outlets will handle 10 amps = 120 amps. Check with your local electronic store. They will be able to advise you.

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i got this electronic cigarette from china (from ebay). I don't know if i should trust a product made in china lol would you say it's safe to use it? other than nicotine is not good for you etc etc…….

1 month ago

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E-cigarettes are marketed as a healthier alternative to tobacco smoking, since most of the harmful material produced by the combustion of tobacco in traditional cigarettes is not present in the atomised liquid of e-cigarettes. They have also been marketed as a way to keep or curtail an addiction to nicotine.

Various toxicological studies of the electronic cigarettes have been conducted, with some concluding that electronic cigarettes are less harmful than traditional tobacco cigarettes, because they can deliver nicotine into the lungs without the carcinogens and toxicants. Nevertheless, the devices still deliver nicotine, which is linked to several harmful circulatory diseases.

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So we’ve been talking about the burning taste for awhile.

I’m currently smoking a rn4081 or Super Cigarette, but this burning taste has eventually led me to ditch every atomizer, whether I use it exclusively with a cartridge or I exclusively drip. I’ve got 6 atomizers, 2 pen-style and 4 rn4081’s that produce smoke, but along with it, they produce a NASTY burning taste. My short term solution is to buy a bunch of rn4081 atomizers (if you look around, you can get them for $7 a pop) and just replace them when they start tasting burnt. No amount of cleaning will get rid of the nasty burnt taste.

SO then. Why the burnt taste? As Jarvis has explained and diagrammed for us here in this post, there is a wick inside the filament that soaks up the liquid, which is then heated to create the vapor.

Here’s a crude diagram:

This wick starts to burn after awhile, presumably because it dries out. And, from my experience, it dries out fairly easily. No amount of coddling seems to save it from drying out and tasting terrible in a week or two.

Additionally, there is the problem of the e-liquid itself leaving a residue behind. Perhaps this is also accountable for the taste: the liquid gets left behind, heats, burns, eventually it is a solid that is burning and that also could create a nasty taste. Here is a demonstration of the solids left behind (translated from Dutch)

So, what are the solutions? Well, I think, because of the solids left behind, that it is necessary to have a disposable atomizer. If there were no solids, or a dependable way of removing solids, we could have a permanent atomizer, but as there is no liquid that doesn’t leave one solid or another behind, then we are best served going with a disposable atomizer.

There are two disposable atomizers on the market today. The LoongTotem and the GreenCig. I have read no reviews of the GreenCig, but the LoongTotem reviews have been negative, across the board. It has some sort of paper in the cart that burns and creates a bad taste. (I searched for the image, but couldn’t find it. Can somebody help me out here?) So, there are no good disposables out right now.

Here’s what I’m coming to. How about a longer thicker wick that goes into a cartridge that is FULL of nicotine liquid. This instead of the absorbent wool that is currently used to suspend the liquid. The cart would last longer, and the wick would remain wet constantly. By the time the solids from the liquid start to accumulate on the filament, the cart would be empty, and we could put in a fresh one. Here’s another crude illustration:

Anyhow. It’s a thought. Aside from convenience, I think that, because of the inevitable solid accumulation on the atomizer, that a disposable cart will be the only way to go.|||Drawings are great … LOL … some massive paint skills going on there.

Good idea though. So many good ideas, just no funds behind them to back them up and get them produced. hmmm….|||man either you have a tablet, or your mouse skills are better than mine.|||Looks ingenious to me. You eliminate the "roll cage" over the heater element, assure a more consistent flow of fluid, and — important to me — get rid of the core material (polyester in some cases) that ends up as stray fibers in your atomizer or, worse, burned areas in your cartridge. Not sure why someone hasn’t tried your idea. And it shouldn’t be more expensive than the present setup, unlike making an ultrasonic mister, for instance.

Zippo lighter = inspiration.|||hell, if someone makes a good ultrasonic one, i’d pay the price.

With that being said, i would have no problem with disposable ones either.|||Yes I like these ideas. Here’s a sloppy manip of an earlier cross section I posted of a possible solution to the burning fiber. Incorporate a new coil/fiber, the steel wool bridge, and a bit of the ceramic into the cartridges. Would save a bit more material than the whole atomizer being thrown out.
|||Let’s consider for a moment what the atomiser does and the way it does it.

The device consists of a pot made of metal, ceramic, or a combination of those materials. In the centre of the pot is a heating coil with a material core centre. Surrounding the pot is a basket of steel wool. Rising above the pot is a bridge made of steel wool.

So that is the basic mechanical design, next what happens when we "smoke" it.

Before I talk about how the device works it’s a good idea to talk a bit about what each of the core components function is.

Steel wool bridge.

The bridge directly contacts the wool in the cartridge and by capillary action wicks the juice into the wool basket that surrounds the core pot.

Steel wool pot

This performs two functions,

i) it acts as the storage reservoir holding an amount of juice for use

ii) it performs the first stage of the atomisation process, more details below.

Heating coil

When heated to the correct temperature the coil creates mist from the droplets of PG and nicotine.

Heating coil wick

The wick seems to perform two actions,

i) it absorbs an amount of juice to provide it with direct contact to the heater coil

ii) providing thermal shock protection and heat caused deformation protection to the coil as it rapidly heats and cools.

Now we understand what each of the parts is doing, lets describe what happens

When we inhale on the device, the airflow is detected and the electronics kick in and connect the power from the battery to the heater coil and the timer circuit, after there has a continuous air flow of 3-5 seconds the timer circuit cuts the power to the heater coil.

When we inhale the liquid held in the wool basket is drawn into the central core of the atomiser in fine droplets, it’s these fine droplets as well as the small amount of liquid held in suspension in the heater coil wick core that is turned into the vapour we inhale into our lungs.

The amount of mist produced is reliant on a number of factors

a. the amount of juice held in the basket

b. the amount of fine droplets created by inhalation

c. the surface area of the heater coil

d. the internal airflow design funnelling the droplets correctly onto the heater coil

From this it would seem logical to assume that provided sufficient juice is available in the wool basket that a smaller sized atomiser will produce greater smoke volumes than a larger device. Think of water flowing through a pipe, a large pipe gives a slower flow, a small pipe gives a faster flow. This is rather borne out by the reviews we have all seen of cigar sized unit and the much smaller DSE901 based devices, the smaller DSE901 wins hands down. This is purely due to the volume of air being drawn through a smaller surface area of mesh at higher velocity than the larger device and being able to draw more fine droplets onto the heating coil. The viscosity of the juice is an important consideration here, too thick and it wont form the initial fine droplets as it is sucked from the wool basket, too thin and it will not be held in the wool basket, but instead flow through it.

I’m only assuming the wick in the centre of the heating coil performs the actions I’ve attributed to it, it would seem to be the most reasonable suggestions for it’s existence.

Is this what we can taste as a burnt taste in some atomisers ?

Yes I believe it is one of the providers of the burnt taste and quite probably the largest contributor. I think there are two other contributors.

The first is stray fibres from the cartridge coming into contact with the heater coil, note that it will need to be in contact with the coil directly not merely the wool bridge wick, although this will become heated it’s large surface area will rapidly dissipate the heat away.

The second is evaporated juice burning off the surfaces of the atomiser. Think of the oven in your stove at home, cooking in the oven causes the walls of the oven to become dirty, this is from spatter or the condensing of vapours from the cooking. If the dirt is allowed to build up, eventually it begins to burn each time we use the oven, this is usually obvious by the amount of smoke that is produced, clean the oven and the smoke goes away. On a much smaller scale the same thing is happening inside our atomisers. It may also be happening on the wick in the centre of the coil, that would account of the blackened lumps we have seen in pictures. So regular cleaning to dissolve and remove crystallised or dried up juice residue is vital.

Would a different heater coil design help ?

Perhaps.

The coil of relatively fine wire is a highly effective method of producing the highest surface area of a material given a specific volume of material available. I do feel the linear shape of the coil is not the best configuration and that a circular or preferably a spiral shape may prove to be a better design to use.

I have also given some considerable thought to different shapes and materials, for example, a ceramic heater platform in a variety of different shapes, cubic, thin square, orb, ring, multi-faceted, etc but I continue to come back to the coil of wire as the most reasonably efficient method.

That will do for my ramblings so far, I hope this gives you something to think about and consider and offers up a view of what’s going on inside your little device.

BTW, how the hell they can charge what they do for them is beyond me, they is nothing complex about the design, there are no exotic materials in the build, even the finish on them is really nothing out of the ordinary … If the build cost including packaging in China was much more than US$1.00 I’d be surprised.|||I like Jarvis’s idea. I don’t really see the necessity of having the steel wool bridge, however. I’ve been straight dripping, and I’m not trying for any degree of accuracy. So, plenty of my drips get into the ceramic pot, and directly on the coil itself, saturating the wick. I’ve found that when I put too much juice in, it doesn’t smoke. So then I tip the cig upwards to let the juice run away from the coil, draw, and get smoke. So, I’m imagining that it would function fine if I dripped without the bridge - the only thing here is that the bridge absorbs a little liquid and keeps me from having to drip so often.

So I’m proposing that the primary function of the bridge is not to draw liquid but to keep the cartridge wool away from direct contact with the coil. Only this and nothing (not much) more. It’s secondary function is just as MNZ says - it serves as a conveyance for the liquid from the cartridge down to the level of the filament. In fact, I just confirmed this - I pulled a bridge out of one of my nasty tasting atomizers, and it still produces smoke when I drip on it (still tastes nasty.) All that’s missing is a reliable conveyance.

Anyhow, here’s an iteration on MNZ’s idea, sans wire bridge and with a redesigned battery that works more like an audio jack or a pen cap. My concern with this is that the liquid would wick too fast and be used up too quickly, but this could be remedied with the wick material, I suppose. Also, I like MNZ’s idea of a spiral-shaped coil, rather than the current linear design. AND, I feel like the wick and coil would see the most action closest to the liquid reservoir, and I don’t have an answer for this at the moment.

|||Looks good jdrancor, with your wick design you could get rid of the steel wool bridge altogether, and perhaps even the ceramic reservoir part.
|||jarvis,

Yes I’m afraid the ruyan products are the same as everyone else’s all your paying for there is the name.

And I couldn’t agree with you more … If we were buying the device described in the original patent documents we certainly wouldn’t be having this conversation now. The described beast is about as far removed from what’s available as a Formula One car is to a lawn mower.

I think it’s all down to price, the whizzo beast that is in the patent would be hugely more expensive to manufacture and would exponentially raise the price.

Would I buy one if it was … say $500-$1000, I’m not sure.Guys, the thing to remember about patents is, they don’t have to work, and they don’t have to ever be actually built. They just have to be an original idea sketched out in enough detail to describe the idea and it’s implementation. Most patents are junk which doesn’t actually work, but it secures the IDEA.

Also, I’ve seen several sites that claim to have patents. There are probably dozens of different patents involved here. Some of them maybe for something as simple as adding one more airhole to the existing design.jd, I think the solid metal bridge is there to prevent the wool bridge from being pressed onto the heating coil. I would imagine that the turbulence and resulting pressure drop, suction effectively, of our inhalations could place quite a bit of pressure onto the wool bridge from the cartridge material, that coming into contact with the heating coil could potentially cause all sorts of nasty things to happen, not the least of which could be a wee shock in the gob mate ! Oh and the death of it’s electronics.

Looking at the possible airflow patterns, I think that the droplets are created from the basket surrounding the pot rather than from the bridge, that I think is there only to draw the liquid into the basket.
Here’s the simplest/cheapest solution to the burnt taste with the current e-cig design. With a minor redesign the steel wool bridge is hinged, it flips back, with tweezers you yank the old burnt coil/fiber out, and plug a new one in. Since it’s just a wire with a bit of thread in it it couldn’t cost more than a couple bucks for a whole bag of these things.

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To clean your atomizer I use a damp tissue and shove it in the chamber and twist, make sure you remove the batter first, then let dry.

i would not recomend this
because you could damage the atomizer

in holland we use the folliwing option (for the old model and not the mini)
take of the battery and cartridge so you only have the atomizer left
close the battery side with youre thumb, and let a few drops of cleaning alcohol fall in to the atomizer, and close the cartridge side with youre finger
now you should have an atomizer filled with alcohol, shake it a bit but do it gently.
now let the alcohol out thru the attomizer side.
repaet it till no more mess/junk is coming out
then blow thru the atomizer from the battery side
and then let it dry really good (one or two days).

when it is dry put back a fully charged battery, put one drop off liquid directly on the atomizer .
carefully start smoking with short puffs but do not inhale, untill the smoke get`s less
then put in a cartridge and start smoking as you used to do, but keep in mind that if there`s still alcohol (you can taste it) in the atomizer that you dont inhale the smoke untill the alcohol is fully gone

and when it worked out wright you can enjoy yourre almost brand new cigarette

and please use only cleaning alcohol (97% is the highest free availeble in our country) and not anything else|||Great stuff, thanks a lot Karmin,

SJ|||I just noticed this from the instructions for my Sedansa:

To clean - blow gently from the battery end for 10 seconds. Steam will emerge and the atomizer will self-clean.

I just wonder what is happening when you do this? Is this a bit of a workaround, or is there actually some cleaning program built in?

Any ideas?|||Hi,

when you blow from battery size, you activate the internal airflow sensor of the device. In fact nothing else happens if you normally suck the cigarrette.

When doing this without cartridge, the temperature of vaporizer is higher than usually and some unwanted things inside vaporizer are vaporized. This procedure can improve fog production a bit, however it is dangerous, because overheating will destroy the vaporizer.

Usually, the cigarettes (NOT the cigar versions) do have an automatic cleaning procedure activated by the circuit after 1500 sucks.||| |||so,finally i did clean my atomizer; i found a good advice on ecig forum:
"..filling a cup with warm water and placing the atomizer in it to loosen the residue than drawing water through the end that screws into the battery into my mouth, when the "taste" is clean I stop, which is typically about half a dozen times. Once this is done, I dry the unit by attaching it to a battery and drawing through the cleaned unit until the "hissing" stops, then I put a new cartridge in and let the e-liquid have time to absorb into the steel wool about 10 minutes and than back to e-smoking."

its work for me..and great that its no waiting time for drying.. |||Just have to say this: Can you imagine wealthy folks (or even most cigarette smokers) sitting around doing this? Who are we kidding? We are pioneers, with a spirit of trying the new. We’ll do it and grin. Most people won’t. Too much trouble.

Note that Ruyan and Loong Totem are now offering one-use mini cigs. When the atomizer/cartridge is dry, toss it and plug in a new one.

Someday, we will buy these like a pack of cigarettes and dispose of them the same way we do cigarette butts.|||ohh yess, TB! i feel it as a strange new "obsessions", i like the concept of e-cig very much, so, ready to spend and invest some time for it , and hope we could help this concept to move on..its right for most of the people it would looke like too much "problem"…but we r here to help -make it better also for our self!|||I actually love this aspect of our new "fad". Its like tweeking my Zippo to get better performance…or hand-rolling. There’s always been a kind of ritualistic satisfaction to my smoking expierience.

Any machine requires maintence to perform optimally. Thanks to all those pioneers who did the work first..and posted your results Lets hope that manufacturers recognise the demand for taking care of their machines and start posting and printing instructions for their devices.|||That’s an apt analogy. It is akin to hand-rolling cigarettes. Anyone remember Laredo rolling machines? But how many people smoke hand-rolls vs commercial made cigarettes? I also liken my e-smoking rituals with those for my pipes. Lots of chores to keep ‘em optimal. That’s why pipe smoking trails both cigar and cigarette smoking.

We are pioneers and proud of it. But the future is disposable product.

Only then will the masses join us in benefiting from a healthier way to satisfy nicotine addiction.

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I know that’s none too subtle. Lemme try again: GET OVER HERE!

Speaking seriously, the only times I consistently see people’s faces tend to droop while showing off an e-cig is when I say that they are all made in China, and that’s where you gotta go if you want any of the best ones. There is a lot of trust in a brand that can claim they make their products "here" even when we’re talking about a product that could kill them (or talking about a product that can curb such a habit). Even here, among the products staunchest supporters, there are people who prefer US reselling ebayers to buying factory direct…and some cautionary tales that might keep people off the product as well.

I can’t speak for every North Carolinian, but we never (as a state) bashed RJR and PM on their tobacco product sales. I doubt we’d bash their competition. And if we can make Dells we can probably make these too.

Any way you slice it, this post boils down to a "do you have plans" post. Its a feature I think should be considered, and I’m surprised there’s been no suggestion post openly stating it.

Cheers.|||cost is always a large factor though. The cost of labor here is dramatically higher than it is in china. We can buy a $40 e-cig from china which sucks, or a $500 dollar e-cig from here that hopefully is good.

my numbers were pulled out of thin air, but you get the point.

-Dusty-|||I was gonna say essentially the same thing. Ruyan owns most of the patents for these devices, and sells licenses for manufacturers to make them. If a U.S. company decided to manufacture them, the license cost would be small compared to the labor cost. That’s why we’re losing so many jobs to Asia, particularly.

On a personal note, my daughter, a medical transcriptionist (not easy and $28 an hour for the labor), took the phone call that told her the biggest hospital chain she relied on is moving transcription duties to India. My daughter-in-law got a notice the same day that her reception counter job at an airline is being eliminated so cheap labor can answer phones at home, all tied together by computers logging reservations.

How does this country ever regain economic balance? We want to buy cheap goods, but be paid high wages. The two don’t work well in the same country. So we continue to ship our money to China or Saudi Arabia, never to see those devalued dollars return.|||It is an effort to not veer wildly into the benefits of bringing manufacturing back to the USA. The price we pay for practically everything does not reflect the actual value of the items. Cheap labor or not. Goods are made to be *purchased* rather than to be used. More often than not the items *look* like they should (it is shaped like a chair, colored like a chair, etc) but after six months stop performing the service promised by their appearance (the chair breaks.) We need to manufacture quality, and pay for quality, and stop wasting our money on stupid crap we don’t need. Okay. Done.

I would easily pay $200 for a made in the USA electric smoking device that was built to last and designed well. I think a device like that would have enough elements that differed, even from the Ruyan design, that patent problems would be minimal. Ruyan owns the patent on first generation designs that must be improved fairly dramatically to be brought on a large scale to the general population. At this point in time Ruyan is byfar the best manufacturer, but, I think we all agree on this, there is dramatic room for improvement. With a good design, and a good look and feel, and good taste, this product could easily supplant half the cigarettes in the US. I’d say, if anything could support a US plant, or even (dare I dream) start a trend back to US-based manufacturing, a next generation electric smoker could.|||you do make a valid point, but US design does not mean it has to be manufactured here.. Not saying it couldn’t be, but cost can be prohibitive.|||Doubt the tobacco lobby would be having it. Unless the the Pharma lobby countered with their own product, but that wont happen either. America isn’t what it used to be… too many ‘interests’ to protect, but hey, if you want a US driven company, than NJOY is an option: http://www.njoy.com/biographies.php|||

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It appears that GreenCig has become the first electronic cigarette to obtain certification from the U.S. Food & Drug Administration.

Its cigarette is officially a "nasal inhaler" by FDA definitions. To be one, the device must deliver a drug through nose, mouth or throat. Certainly an e-cigarette takes that route to deliver its nicotine.

GreenCig makes disposable and non-disposable cigarettes and is readying a disposable cigar for sale in the U.S. The company, GreenWorld, is American invested but manufactures in China.

This certification is astounding news and means that, unless the e-cigarette is challenged by a Congressman, it likely will be legal to sell these devices in this country without hearings, demands for clinical trials and proof of efficacy.

You can read the brief certification statement and follow links to definitions at FDA > CDRH > Registration & Listing Database Search

See further thoughts on this on page two of this thread. GreenCig has registered, not been given any kind of FDA approval. Go deep into that FDA date listing and you’ll see that no approvals have been given and GreenCig claims exemption from approvals. We shall see.|||Good job, Bob! |||wow!THAT came out of the blue…well done greencig,and well done Bob!|||Party! Time!|||TIME TO PAAARRRTTAAAAYYY !!!! Thanks for posting TB, this is great news!|||and still not one review of their products. they appear to be building a solid base before launching.||| |||I may be the only skeptic here - but I don’t think it is going to be that easy. Lets hope I am wrong…||| |||Today people have seemed to be quite unsure regarding green cig and who they are but I can reassure people that they are all kosher and legit.
As I have personally been having business telephone conversations with them in the last few days.
Their aim is to try and bring green cig into the UK but mainly in the mainstream of things rather than Internet but there will be a Internet site.
It will be aimed more at the retail market. Shops/ stores/ businesses etc.
More like as you would see the top brands websites where you only see janty. N joy. Sedansa etc only for sale on their own sites not mixed up with suppliers selling all sorts . Whether that will change I don’t know. As I think they want to have a more prestige look.
They are a US invested company with a manufacturing plant in China.

So this is all good for us as for spreading the word into the mainstream. I feel this must go this way as it is at present to Internet-based which that is all right but it needs to get out there for people to accept and get used to because at the moment it’s only people like ourselves that showing a man on the street what we have.

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i am at the moment writing a couple of novels, but i find it very difficult to always have access to my laptop or pc, i cant always have a writing pad handy so i am thinking of buying a pda so i can write when i like, does anyone have any pros or cons of buy one, or should i not even bother!

1 year ago

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General rule of hiring employees -never hire a new person until everyone is already so overworked they are delighted to welcome the new person no matter where they sit.

Same thing for electronic devices. The need should be overwhelming - and some things are still better done by pen and paper than by pda's and their ilk. Get a reporter's pad - like a steno pad but think enough to fit in your pocket. Or a pocket recorder - of course that means you or someone has to transcribe what has been spoken - but again, about the size of a cigarette pack it's small and easy.

Personally, I always have a pad with me - steno size - and it has seldom been a problem. even fits into a fanny pack.

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Customs stopped my order from Njoy and the custom officer told me he thinks e-cigarettes are banned in Iceland! I will get a full report after the weekend. Has anyone else had this problem? I think it is very strange to ban e-cigs but allow regular tobacco and nicotine quitting products!

Shogn|||It’s not strange when you have history on your side. Many things that would be illegal today are "grandfathered" into legality. That includes cigarettes. Do you think any government would approve cigarettes if an inventor submitted them today for approval? The e-products, however, are nicotine delivery devices. New. I expect mixed reactions by governments on whether to allow their sale. They are not clearly legal; nor clearly illegal. Each government will decide as it confronts them.

Virtually all legal quit-smoking items in the United States, where I live, are products of Big Pharmaceutical. Millions have been spent on development and testing. Billions stand to be made. E-smoking has had none of those tests, no approval.|||That’s where the good doctor comes in.|||Empirical evidence won’t hold up.

If a government agency decides these are "nicotine delivery devices," the government will regulate them as medical products, requiring the same years of study and expenditure of millions of dollars that it took to get patches, gum, lozenges and inhalers on the market.

E-smoking won’t happen if that’s the way the flipped coin lands.

Health is not the concern. We all keep arguing they’re safer. But there are no studies to prove they’re safer than FDA-approved NRT products. In fact, there are no long-term studies proving they’re safe at all. We certainly hope so, but hope isn’t proof. No one has ever inhaled propylene glycol vapors multiple times each day for years. That’s what we’re doing, assuming it’s safer than inhaling cigarette smoke. While that probably is true, absolute knowledge of safety will be elusive for some time to come. The governments of many countries might ere on the side of "don’t sell it before its safety is proven."

If that happens, we’re looking at these products being banned.|||Shogun, I think you added the tags here? I saw banned in the tag cloud, however I chose to use bans instead because:

- we have threads on past, current, and future potential smoking/tobacco/ecig bans

- the tag banned sounded like a forum user had been banned.

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A post made elsewhere by Ludo (Janty) had my ears perking up:

"Italy (=Jantyshop about to open there) is waiting for green light from government: they are ahead of european legislation there and will be allowing 6mg to be sold freely"

So… perhaps not 谩ll doom-and-gloom in the world of e-smoking after all then; this is one ray of sunlight like we have been wanting to see |||We really need ONE country to say this is a good thing. Just one to get e-smoking started. I hope Italy is the one. It might spur others.

But 6mg max? Oh my. Might as well smoke Bickford flavors.|||Agree: one is what we need. For starters. I hope myself it will be Malaysia first, setting the norm, because we know that our own Jim, who knows what we need, is behind it then

Still: Italy alongside wouldn’t be bad… also because it is in the group of 24 countries, none of the others having legislation on this, so with a good chance of having them follow the one that does… and guess th茅n we will need Jim’s influence through Malaysia or who knows straight on even, to get them to take the next step and change it to what we need to let it really work as needed…

Getting the devices in without trouble is one big step that will allready be taken then though, which will win a lot of time, so less for Jim to do after that (Poor Jim, being sent around the whole world allready )

And when a whole group of countries lets it in… small chance US will be able to keep it out th茅n, I would think. |||You read what happened to Dr. Loi, right? The government essentially turned against him. The One Good Man is on his own.|||I think I have some idea of what is happening to Dr. Loi. What a darn hard time he is having; and just how much courage he is needing… and showing. Courage 谩nd hope.
Hope is a strong motor TB: and accompanied by courage and resourcefulness it can get people a long way. Lets see, and show some faith in… and/or hope for… what could happen. In Italy; in KL. .|||Hi Katink, Can you post the URL of this piece of information please? I’d like to read the full story, if Italy is going to be the first country making e-cigarettes legal.

Also is this being covered in any Italian news (hopefully there’s an english version…)? Thanks heaps.

|||We will get permission for sales in 20 days… the test results for the cartridges was ok, we’ll have all certificates needed for Italy and therefore for Europe. Coz that’s how it works, once a European member state gives the green light, the rest will follow :-)||| |||Ruyan, I view your company as the only one in the world with the finances and clout to get e-smoking accepted by governments. You probably stand alone with tests from Dr. Murray Laugesen to show purity of liquid. No other company assures us with lab tests that our practice is "safe."

But the bottom line is that you are selling a drug delivery device that uses a poisonous liquid to sustain addicts. That’s a tough sales pitch, and a slow ball pitch of "it’s healthier than cigarettes" won’t get far. I wish you all the luck in the world in making what you said above come true.

I’m aboard, even if I have to buy a Janty. (And surely no one expects blanket approval of e-smoking devices and liquid; approvals will be model by model, company by company). Italy will approve only Ruyan products, if it approves anything at all.|||

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As we dance on the deck of the Titanic, consider the news stories swirling today about a chemical in recyclable plastic most folks call BPA. Here’s the lead from one news story:

"The first large study of humans exposed to a chemical widely used in everyday plastics has found that people with higher levels of bisphenol A had higher rates of heart disease, diabetes and liver abnormalities."

So, you ask? Well, what are our cartridges made of? What are our vials of liquids made of? Where are our vials made? (Many manufacturers place triangles with numbers inside them on the bottoms of plastic vials — a 7 means it has BPA — our e-liquid vials are not stamped at all; check it out).

Another paragraph:

"BPA is the chemical once studied as a synthetic form of estrogen, but more recently known to leach out of some plastic water bottles and baby bottles, and that is found in all kinds of plastic products."

It leaches worst in a heated or acidic environment. Anyone else think it’s highly likely that our e-cig devices, vials and liquid containers are made with BPA? And if you want to get a chemical circulating in the body in the fastest way besides direct injection, you … INHALE IT.

Then what? Another graf:

"BPA mimics the female hormone estrogen and another recent study suggested it may be implicated in metabolic syndrome 聳 a dangerous combination of high cholesterol, high blood pressure and erratic blood sugar levels.

"Earlier studies have also found a link with cancer, growth defects and neurological problems."

Our FDA in America has passed over scientific studies about BPA, saying the stuff is safe in each instance of use (but does accumulate all day from a variety of food sources containing it, everything from pop soda cans to the cardboard your pizza sits on).

But no group of people besides e-smokers are INHALING BPA a hundred times or more every day, putting this chemical on the fast track to the brain. That’s assuming BPA is in the vials, the carts, maybe even the filler material in the carts or the wick that heats under the atomizer. Don’t expect manufacturers (who are they?) to supply answers to these questions either.

The last paragraph of this news story said it all as to why this is happening:

"Despite more than 100 studies by government-funded scientists and university laboratories that have linked BPA exposure to health effects in animals, the Food and Drug Administration has deemed it safe, largely on the basis of two studies funded by the chemical industry."

As always, follow the money.|||Dayum. Dayum.

Wonder if we can get blood tests to see if it is in our bloodstream?
I get liver enzymes tested regularly - will be watching those to see if I exhibit any changes as a lab rat.|||I had some blood taken for a liver function test last week, I’ll report back if I get any unusual results.|||I had blood drawn Friday and specifically asked that blood PH be tested and results given to me. That’s to check on the lactic acidosis possibility. I’m sure there will be no test for BPA, however. I’m a heavy e-smoker and want to know how this is affecting my blood — but I also follow my lipids and cholesterol every six months. The BPA thing is probably very difficult to ascertain (read: expensive).

I guess the bottom line is we can’t say for certain this is safe, or even safer than smoking tobacco. Smoking-related cancers usually take 20 years to develop. How long would it take for BPA to do liver or heart damage? Another unknown .. so we need to stop making unsubstantiated health claims about e-smoking.

As Nike says: Just do it.|||Did I miss a memo?

BPA is in Plastic bottles as far as I know.

Are you talking about the carts them selfs?

If so, you dont have to worry about BPA because its an additive to Clear Plexy bottles.

Again, as far as I know|||BPA is in far more than clear plastic bottles. I was out earlier this afternoon checking out plastic bottles of all kinds. Turn them over. Look for a triangle. If it says "3" or "7" it’s got BPA. If it says "2" it’s okay. If it says nothing, don’t use it. It’s cheap and the manufacturer can’t be trusted.

Now look on the bottoms of our liquids’ vials. No triangle mark. Look at the cartridges. Plastic. Look at the mouthpiece we suck on. Plastic. This is just another unknown that needs to become a known. If manufacturers wanted to, they could assure us BPA is not used anywhere in our devices.

P.S. The memo said people are stampeding back to glass or metal drinking and food containers.|||None of my bottles are plastic, thats why it confused me.

Who is selling juice in plastic? maybe we can request they change to glass?

Sitting for a long time in plastic is when it leaches, and I am not sure what a long time is for plastic? Cool dry place, can be pretty long, in the sun, maybe a few hours.

LArge water jugs can sit up to 3 months, or a few weeks, again it depends. For a 1 ounce bottle? unless its full or something real acidic (pure alcohol, might, but it would eat the bottle first) , it would take a Long time to leach out.

The plastic mouth piece and cart is so small, i wouldnt worry about it. Unless your actually chewing and eating it during use, hehe

The sky is always falling, but nothing ever hits the ground.

Every week something will kill you. Is eggs good or bad this week? (with the bacon from the other thread, I can eat )

The bottle of water you may have drank, in a lot of cases, has more crap in it to worry more about, then BPA, and sure more then the tiny amounts you may get from these parts.

Now, the baby bottles and food containers, ok, because their system is not developed to deal with it yet.|||i so think it is a legitimate concern, specifically as was mentioned, we do not know what the cartridge fiber is constructed from and it is heated to a point where it becomes gaseous.|||We smoked thousands of cigarettes, some of us just this year, now we are worried what the mouth piece may have come into contact with in the manufacturing process?

I am old enough to remember the PCB scare when i was young. Only cancer I ever heard about was from the land fills where they dumped the transformers they were saveing us from 0_o

I agree that we need to learn as much as we can about the whole E-cig phanominom. Because its not regulated, and because its used as an Inhaler, BUT, thats what makes them good as well, I wont go into the benifits, but the cigarette taxes alone for a month would buy an E-cig in some places.

Its all the nail biteing thats going to get the government to regulate the piss out of these, then we are going to be crying, like we did when they banned smoking from everyplace but your bathroom. (and then Ive heard of ordinances if its a bathroom in an apartment building )

Every other post here of late is that these will kill you in some way shape or form.

And its all based on some flimsy study, or news artical, or someone had a pain in while taking a dump 6 months ago, damn (ok exageration)

One thread is even about how E-smokes cause Flatuence, Sheese 0_o

If you people are that afraid of these, send them to me, I can do a case study to see the long term effects on myself, and Ill let you know in 20 years If its safe or not.

*Sorry Bob if i seem to be highjacking, Its not intended, its just, this thread was a good one for a rant |||

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