e-Cigarettes - Electronic Cigarettese - e-Cigarette-Blog.com

Hi,

i'm a heavy smoker "about 20 sticks a day" i've been trying to quite but always failed, i looked around the web and heard about the E-cigarette but i can't find it any where in malaysia not even in lelong.com.my,

do you know a place that sells it?

thanks

1 month ago

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1 month ago

thanks for the answers guys… and ladies,

hmm its weird becuase according to this websitehttp://www.e-cigs.org/?p=24, the e-cigarette has been clinically tested in Malaysia, yet i can't seem to find it anywhere!… maybe a private doctor.

i think am gonna buy it from ebay china and bare the pocket burning international chipping fare!

terma kasih babyblush at least your answer kinda made sense!

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http://www.barahparu2.com.my/e-cigarette…

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I am going on a lengthy road trip this summer. I want to take my lap top so I can do my work part-time while i am on the road, and my friend is driving. We also have ipods, cell phone chargers, etc to use in the car.

I've been looking at inverters for my laptop. Now my friend mentions we should get a splitter for the cig lighter outlet and then plug the inverter into that. Anyone know if this will be ok?

Mainly I'm worried about burning up my alternator/battery and/or my electronical devices. How much wattage can a cig lighter deal with?

1 year ago

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Usually they will handle 5 amps which is 12 x 5 = 60 watts. They have a 5 amp fuse, so you won't overload anything. You may be able to get a bigger amperage one as I think most cigarette lighter outlets will handle 10 amps = 120 amps. Check with your local electronic store. They will be able to advise you.

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Well, here’s the first part, the introduction, to my Video Demo of Johnson’s Creek Smoke Juice.

I am using my last black 901b atomizer, so I hope y’all appreciate it.

This first part just demonstrates the performance of a brand new 901b atomizer.

The second part will be a series of clips from throughtout a day or so, showing how the performance degrades (or doesn’t, if it surprises me) after using the JC SJ.

|||Leaford, have you tried running hte juice through a double coffee filter? Maybe that might help a bit? Perhaps not- just a htought - also, the trend in esmoking seems ot be movign toward disposable atomizer/cartridge units, so even if we can’t refine hte juice any further, the juice I think will work quite well in disposables which I can personally testify to- There’s no reason to give up on JC juice just yet- Especially if ECigg is selling the loong- or a clone at such innexpensive prices- For htose that enjoy the JC flavors liek I do, I thin we’ll still be able ot enjoy it with disposable atomizers

JC been takign an awful beating here o n the forums lately, but there’s hope yet, and he might yet refine it to be able to be used in traditional penstyles/minis too- let’s hope as his flavors are outstanding (if not a little weak though)|||Naz…

Disposable or not, do you still want to inhale all the sediment/oils/etc… in the liquid?

EDIT: Mind you, I am playing the Devil’s advocate. I’m neither for or against the use of JC Juice, simply an observer |||Meh- what little gets inhaled would be cuaghed out and I’m guessing that hte ingredients are all pretty innocuous? Especially compared to the 4000 or so chemicals in real ciggs- also, the sediments will be caught in the filter mostly I’m guessing. I didn’t see where JC uses oils?

I’m wonderign though just what hte sediments are from? Homebrew by leachign tobacco with PG doesn’t produce sediments? What additions could be cuasing sediments in JC? Would be nice to have Mac state for us|||Well, for one, I don’t think I should have to be doing his filtering for him, and for another, I doubt anything I could do at home would be more effective than his professional centrifugal filtering.

But besides, the new filtered stuff has very little sediment, and no cloudiness or oily film, so I don’t think it’s either oil or particulates causing the problem. I could be wrong, of course.

As to using it in a disposable, that might be an option, but at the moment I’m not using disposables, nor are most people. So that’s kind of irrelevent. Plus, the disposables aren’t designed to be refilled anyway, so it’s again irrelevent to what most people will be doing with it.

No, this is intended to be used to fill cartridges in our current crop of e-cigs, and it’s been causing problems when used as intended. Which is all I’m trying to document.

I am sorry Christian is "taking a beating" but sharing problems and issues with suppliers and manufacturers is the best public service boards like this can do. I think I am being very fair by pointing out what I like as well as what I don’t like about it.

Additionally, I am using the latest filtered batch, and being VERY careful to not shake it up, and to only draw from the top of the bottle and avoid the sediment, to give it the best chance possible. And who knows, maybe doing it this way it’ll surprise me and not cause a problem.||| |||I cleaned one out which had dropped below a 2 out of 5 on both vapor production and draw, and got it back to a 4 on draw, and 3 or so on vapor. It’s in my just-in-case-all-else-fails drawer. BUt that took a through cleaning, running it under scalding tap water, shaking the water inside the barrell, blowing HARD through both ends, and repeating several times. But after just over a day, that shouldn’t have been necessary.|||assemble everything (without a cartridge) just the battery and atomizer, and try blowing htrough hte battery end for those in that drawer- this will initiate a burning off of hte crud, but you will get soem burnt taste, so go slow with it at first- see if this brings the worst atomizers back to life- I’ve had it work on a few (but had to put up with hte bad taste for an hour or so)|||Thanks for the Sacrifice Leaford.

I am waiting to see your results.

On a side note, I think it was your videos that first directed me here |||Thanks, Magus. I’ve been off the horse on the videos for a while, but I’m getting back up now.oh no!! look what i did! Im making someone send a 901 atomizer to an early grave. Im going to hell with gasoline drawers on!leaford, thank you for your reviews they are enlightening. I noticed on your first video in this series that really the vapor was not great even with new battery and atomizer. I was sitting here puffing my generic 901, with a regular cartridge, getting twice as much vapor with a regular cartridge. Maybe its because I don’t inhale as deeply as you, so more vapor comes out of me lol. I too would be willing to replace an atomizer for you in appreciation of these valuable reviews.

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Awesome videographer RatInDaHat clued me in on using a black light to see the stray fibers left in the atomizer (from the cart). It works perfectly - they glow brightly, you can’t miss ‘em.

The bad news? At least in my well-used atomizers, some of the fibers have already fused to the steel wool bridge, so now I can see them but I can’t get them out. Adds a little trepidation to my already trepidatious new habit.

I purchased a portable battery operated 6-inch fluorescent, looking like this…. The light is quite weak and I plan to purchase either a better bulb or a different black light: UPDATE: Bigger lights aren’t better, this one works properly.

Rat has an LED black light keychain like this, which seems to work for him:
|||Funny stuff.

Whatever you do, Jamie, do NOT shine that black light on your kitchen countertop or bathroom floor! If you do, you will be changed forever. Also do not look at yourself in a mirror while illuminated by UV light.

I love UV experiences …|||Hehehe. You’re correct, but years too late to save me. Went through all the rooms with a large black light… wanted to sell the house immediately. |||After a week using a black light it’s become a required paraphernalia for my esmoking with carts.

Prior to the black light purchases I used a variety of small focused lights and magnifying lenses to find fibers in the atomizer. I can’t overstate how useless those tools turned out to be as compared to a black light.

Fibers in the atomizer are responsible for 90% of my burning tastes and odors. I didn’t know that before, because I couldn’t see many of the fibers with my other tools - although I thought I could!

Nearly every puff deposits fibers into the atomizer, both with my DSE901 Minis and my Penstyles. It’s distressing to know that I’m nearly always smoking fiber particles. The black light helps to minimize this a great deal - WHEN there is time to use it.

The portable battery operated 6-inch fluorescent is better than nothing. It’s a cheap product (we’ve heard that before!) and the light dims fairly quickly. It eats batteries so I finally changed to digital camera labeled batteries.

Now I’ve ordered a high intensity LED penlight that I expect will work better. I’ve had their white penlight and it’s my favorite flashlight ever.

There are also many small 3 or 5 or 12 LED black UV lights available, the one Rat has and similar.|||Dude! Those lights are too cool. As if I needed another way to drop some cash, I ordered one from Amazon yesterday, and they delivered it today. Wow, warp speed.

I’ve already tried to smoke it about a dozen times. Looks just like my black penstyle if I’m not paying close attention. smilesmoking.gif

Now that I can see every little fiber in the atomizer, I seem to need a third hand…..one to hold the atomizer, one to shine the light, and one for some tweezers.

Am I just retarded, or how do you do this??? |||Search for "helping hand" on ebay maybe be just what your looking for..

Out on interest, what happends when you shine UV in bathroom, kitchen and especially the mirror, I tempted to buy on just to find out.|||Okay guys, if you are going to tell him - lets keep it nice - I don’t want to have to delete posts again

However, back on topic, I would like to have one of those lights myself, just to see if I do keep my atomizer clean enough.||| |||argh Rachel - I suppressed this! Who bumped it? Another gimme gizmo…|||

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So we’ve been talking about the burning taste for awhile.

I’m currently smoking a rn4081 or Super Cigarette, but this burning taste has eventually led me to ditch every atomizer, whether I use it exclusively with a cartridge or I exclusively drip. I’ve got 6 atomizers, 2 pen-style and 4 rn4081’s that produce smoke, but along with it, they produce a NASTY burning taste. My short term solution is to buy a bunch of rn4081 atomizers (if you look around, you can get them for $7 a pop) and just replace them when they start tasting burnt. No amount of cleaning will get rid of the nasty burnt taste.

SO then. Why the burnt taste? As Jarvis has explained and diagrammed for us here in this post, there is a wick inside the filament that soaks up the liquid, which is then heated to create the vapor.

Here’s a crude diagram:

This wick starts to burn after awhile, presumably because it dries out. And, from my experience, it dries out fairly easily. No amount of coddling seems to save it from drying out and tasting terrible in a week or two.

Additionally, there is the problem of the e-liquid itself leaving a residue behind. Perhaps this is also accountable for the taste: the liquid gets left behind, heats, burns, eventually it is a solid that is burning and that also could create a nasty taste. Here is a demonstration of the solids left behind (translated from Dutch)

So, what are the solutions? Well, I think, because of the solids left behind, that it is necessary to have a disposable atomizer. If there were no solids, or a dependable way of removing solids, we could have a permanent atomizer, but as there is no liquid that doesn’t leave one solid or another behind, then we are best served going with a disposable atomizer.

There are two disposable atomizers on the market today. The LoongTotem and the GreenCig. I have read no reviews of the GreenCig, but the LoongTotem reviews have been negative, across the board. It has some sort of paper in the cart that burns and creates a bad taste. (I searched for the image, but couldn’t find it. Can somebody help me out here?) So, there are no good disposables out right now.

Here’s what I’m coming to. How about a longer thicker wick that goes into a cartridge that is FULL of nicotine liquid. This instead of the absorbent wool that is currently used to suspend the liquid. The cart would last longer, and the wick would remain wet constantly. By the time the solids from the liquid start to accumulate on the filament, the cart would be empty, and we could put in a fresh one. Here’s another crude illustration:

Anyhow. It’s a thought. Aside from convenience, I think that, because of the inevitable solid accumulation on the atomizer, that a disposable cart will be the only way to go.|||Drawings are great … LOL … some massive paint skills going on there.

Good idea though. So many good ideas, just no funds behind them to back them up and get them produced. hmmm….|||man either you have a tablet, or your mouse skills are better than mine.|||Looks ingenious to me. You eliminate the "roll cage" over the heater element, assure a more consistent flow of fluid, and — important to me — get rid of the core material (polyester in some cases) that ends up as stray fibers in your atomizer or, worse, burned areas in your cartridge. Not sure why someone hasn’t tried your idea. And it shouldn’t be more expensive than the present setup, unlike making an ultrasonic mister, for instance.

Zippo lighter = inspiration.|||hell, if someone makes a good ultrasonic one, i’d pay the price.

With that being said, i would have no problem with disposable ones either.|||Yes I like these ideas. Here’s a sloppy manip of an earlier cross section I posted of a possible solution to the burning fiber. Incorporate a new coil/fiber, the steel wool bridge, and a bit of the ceramic into the cartridges. Would save a bit more material than the whole atomizer being thrown out.
|||Let’s consider for a moment what the atomiser does and the way it does it.

The device consists of a pot made of metal, ceramic, or a combination of those materials. In the centre of the pot is a heating coil with a material core centre. Surrounding the pot is a basket of steel wool. Rising above the pot is a bridge made of steel wool.

So that is the basic mechanical design, next what happens when we "smoke" it.

Before I talk about how the device works it’s a good idea to talk a bit about what each of the core components function is.

Steel wool bridge.

The bridge directly contacts the wool in the cartridge and by capillary action wicks the juice into the wool basket that surrounds the core pot.

Steel wool pot

This performs two functions,

i) it acts as the storage reservoir holding an amount of juice for use

ii) it performs the first stage of the atomisation process, more details below.

Heating coil

When heated to the correct temperature the coil creates mist from the droplets of PG and nicotine.

Heating coil wick

The wick seems to perform two actions,

i) it absorbs an amount of juice to provide it with direct contact to the heater coil

ii) providing thermal shock protection and heat caused deformation protection to the coil as it rapidly heats and cools.

Now we understand what each of the parts is doing, lets describe what happens

When we inhale on the device, the airflow is detected and the electronics kick in and connect the power from the battery to the heater coil and the timer circuit, after there has a continuous air flow of 3-5 seconds the timer circuit cuts the power to the heater coil.

When we inhale the liquid held in the wool basket is drawn into the central core of the atomiser in fine droplets, it’s these fine droplets as well as the small amount of liquid held in suspension in the heater coil wick core that is turned into the vapour we inhale into our lungs.

The amount of mist produced is reliant on a number of factors

a. the amount of juice held in the basket

b. the amount of fine droplets created by inhalation

c. the surface area of the heater coil

d. the internal airflow design funnelling the droplets correctly onto the heater coil

From this it would seem logical to assume that provided sufficient juice is available in the wool basket that a smaller sized atomiser will produce greater smoke volumes than a larger device. Think of water flowing through a pipe, a large pipe gives a slower flow, a small pipe gives a faster flow. This is rather borne out by the reviews we have all seen of cigar sized unit and the much smaller DSE901 based devices, the smaller DSE901 wins hands down. This is purely due to the volume of air being drawn through a smaller surface area of mesh at higher velocity than the larger device and being able to draw more fine droplets onto the heating coil. The viscosity of the juice is an important consideration here, too thick and it wont form the initial fine droplets as it is sucked from the wool basket, too thin and it will not be held in the wool basket, but instead flow through it.

I’m only assuming the wick in the centre of the heating coil performs the actions I’ve attributed to it, it would seem to be the most reasonable suggestions for it’s existence.

Is this what we can taste as a burnt taste in some atomisers ?

Yes I believe it is one of the providers of the burnt taste and quite probably the largest contributor. I think there are two other contributors.

The first is stray fibres from the cartridge coming into contact with the heater coil, note that it will need to be in contact with the coil directly not merely the wool bridge wick, although this will become heated it’s large surface area will rapidly dissipate the heat away.

The second is evaporated juice burning off the surfaces of the atomiser. Think of the oven in your stove at home, cooking in the oven causes the walls of the oven to become dirty, this is from spatter or the condensing of vapours from the cooking. If the dirt is allowed to build up, eventually it begins to burn each time we use the oven, this is usually obvious by the amount of smoke that is produced, clean the oven and the smoke goes away. On a much smaller scale the same thing is happening inside our atomisers. It may also be happening on the wick in the centre of the coil, that would account of the blackened lumps we have seen in pictures. So regular cleaning to dissolve and remove crystallised or dried up juice residue is vital.

Would a different heater coil design help ?

Perhaps.

The coil of relatively fine wire is a highly effective method of producing the highest surface area of a material given a specific volume of material available. I do feel the linear shape of the coil is not the best configuration and that a circular or preferably a spiral shape may prove to be a better design to use.

I have also given some considerable thought to different shapes and materials, for example, a ceramic heater platform in a variety of different shapes, cubic, thin square, orb, ring, multi-faceted, etc but I continue to come back to the coil of wire as the most reasonably efficient method.

That will do for my ramblings so far, I hope this gives you something to think about and consider and offers up a view of what’s going on inside your little device.

BTW, how the hell they can charge what they do for them is beyond me, they is nothing complex about the design, there are no exotic materials in the build, even the finish on them is really nothing out of the ordinary … If the build cost including packaging in China was much more than US$1.00 I’d be surprised.|||I like Jarvis’s idea. I don’t really see the necessity of having the steel wool bridge, however. I’ve been straight dripping, and I’m not trying for any degree of accuracy. So, plenty of my drips get into the ceramic pot, and directly on the coil itself, saturating the wick. I’ve found that when I put too much juice in, it doesn’t smoke. So then I tip the cig upwards to let the juice run away from the coil, draw, and get smoke. So, I’m imagining that it would function fine if I dripped without the bridge - the only thing here is that the bridge absorbs a little liquid and keeps me from having to drip so often.

So I’m proposing that the primary function of the bridge is not to draw liquid but to keep the cartridge wool away from direct contact with the coil. Only this and nothing (not much) more. It’s secondary function is just as MNZ says - it serves as a conveyance for the liquid from the cartridge down to the level of the filament. In fact, I just confirmed this - I pulled a bridge out of one of my nasty tasting atomizers, and it still produces smoke when I drip on it (still tastes nasty.) All that’s missing is a reliable conveyance.

Anyhow, here’s an iteration on MNZ’s idea, sans wire bridge and with a redesigned battery that works more like an audio jack or a pen cap. My concern with this is that the liquid would wick too fast and be used up too quickly, but this could be remedied with the wick material, I suppose. Also, I like MNZ’s idea of a spiral-shaped coil, rather than the current linear design. AND, I feel like the wick and coil would see the most action closest to the liquid reservoir, and I don’t have an answer for this at the moment.

|||Looks good jdrancor, with your wick design you could get rid of the steel wool bridge altogether, and perhaps even the ceramic reservoir part.
|||jarvis,

Yes I’m afraid the ruyan products are the same as everyone else’s all your paying for there is the name.

And I couldn’t agree with you more … If we were buying the device described in the original patent documents we certainly wouldn’t be having this conversation now. The described beast is about as far removed from what’s available as a Formula One car is to a lawn mower.

I think it’s all down to price, the whizzo beast that is in the patent would be hugely more expensive to manufacture and would exponentially raise the price.

Would I buy one if it was … say $500-$1000, I’m not sure.Guys, the thing to remember about patents is, they don’t have to work, and they don’t have to ever be actually built. They just have to be an original idea sketched out in enough detail to describe the idea and it’s implementation. Most patents are junk which doesn’t actually work, but it secures the IDEA.

Also, I’ve seen several sites that claim to have patents. There are probably dozens of different patents involved here. Some of them maybe for something as simple as adding one more airhole to the existing design.jd, I think the solid metal bridge is there to prevent the wool bridge from being pressed onto the heating coil. I would imagine that the turbulence and resulting pressure drop, suction effectively, of our inhalations could place quite a bit of pressure onto the wool bridge from the cartridge material, that coming into contact with the heating coil could potentially cause all sorts of nasty things to happen, not the least of which could be a wee shock in the gob mate ! Oh and the death of it’s electronics.

Looking at the possible airflow patterns, I think that the droplets are created from the basket surrounding the pot rather than from the bridge, that I think is there only to draw the liquid into the basket.
Here’s the simplest/cheapest solution to the burnt taste with the current e-cig design. With a minor redesign the steel wool bridge is hinged, it flips back, with tweezers you yank the old burnt coil/fiber out, and plug a new one in. Since it’s just a wire with a bit of thread in it it couldn’t cost more than a couple bucks for a whole bag of these things.

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This will be my first post here and hope this thread I started will help…..OK….I called this the Needle Project

You’ll need a new disposable hypodermic needle size of 25G x 5/8-0.5×16mm(means: 25 gauge and 5/8-0.5×16mm length)..should be brown/orange plastic connector….cut the plastic connector to 1/3rd with the needle intact….stick into a cartridge wool (full/half filled with liquid..mine works with Njoy..might work with other brands) in the centre and push all the way in till the needle stop..don’t puncture the cartridge..you’ll notice the wool will be pushed back and liquid will fill up but don’t worry if it also fill the cut end of the needle..you can top up later with e-liquids..now reinsert the cartridge with the modified needle into your atomiser..don’t worry, it won’t be burnt…start smoking…you’ll feel a sudden change in the flow of vapor..cooler to the tip of the tongue and far more dense….please try…you’ll like it…250 patients of mine love it..far superior but it can consume a bit more liquid..it is like dry smoking but with the cartridge inserted and if the ‘fuel’ gets low..jerk it like a pen running out of ink..you’ll get a instant refill automatically….I find it far better in burning up th e-liquid and producing better vapor….

Second tip…keep your container cap(mine is the Njoy type) and cap it over your mouthpiece tip when you are not using the device …use it like a pen cap (same principle to prevent your pen/marker from drying up)and you’ll be conserving moisture within the atomiser(save losses of liquids through the mouthpiece)..you’ll be surprised it actually help in producing your first billow of vapor….

More tips to come..as fast as I can discover it….Let me know if you have any problems…cheers….From Doc. Jim.Loi., Malaysia. |||I’m confused - got pictures? Does the cut section of the needle go into the cartridge or is does it face the atomizer?|||thanks for sharing the invention, jimldk. picture would be very helpful to understand, do you mean the part of plastic connector turn to the heating part of atomizer? isnt it danger for burning plastic?|||Great to see you here! I’ve been reposting you from e-Cig and now I can relax.||| ||| |||Thank you, now I understand. Now to find a place to buy the syringe.

Rachel||| |||Great to have you on board Jim!

Looking forward to some excellent and informative stuff. Thanks for explaining your needle technique.

As regards photos, we don’t have any way of hosting at the moment, but you can link to them externally using (img)www.exampleurl.com/photo.jpg(/img), but with square brackets rather than parentheses.

By the way, do you have any thoughts on the long term safety of inhaling propylene glycol?

Regards,
Smokey_Joe|||Thats what I meant, the needle.

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I came across this from e-cig.com, thought you all might find it interesting. He has given his permission to use his posts if we feel it might be helpful.

|||Very interesting!

Thanks for the heads up.

Incidentally, I showed mine to my doctor recently and he was amazed. He said he shall be advising some of his patients to take a look at it!

SJ|||When you showed it to your doctor Smokey_joe, did he remark on possible negative effects from PG or other ingredients?|||Time to update the Malaysian doctor’s comments on the E-Cig forum. Got to love this guy. I do. I’ve posted to him a few times to tell him he’s doing pioneering work. This is well worth a read. Here are the pertinent posts:

I have begun a clinical trial in Malaysia and have sought out this company products to help out in the clinical trial…So far as I can see the results is AMAZING…..As a doctor for many years..I have never seen my patients (age ranging from 18 to 94 years old both male and female) so happy with this therapy….
90% have given up smoking and 5% still smokes but much less…the other 5% failure (still under supervision) might be due to device adaptibilty problems or bad habits …sometimes you can’t change a leopard skin…hmmmm

Anyway, trial still in early stages and we actually help by supplementing different methods of Nicotine usage…I have also developed several types of liquids for the patients for their devices as well to continue their fillup (refill) program..Amazing discovery there…more of psychological trust then physical need/addiction is invovled…Will publish more as this trial continues…

The devices we use are of NJOY cigarette and Cigar…recent addition is from E-cig company E-pipe and minicig and their cigarette…lots of technicality issues but soon to be resolved and also financial impact on the patients (huge savings!!) is being assessed…All I can say is "The Future looks Bright,I gotta wear shades!"

Just forgotten to add one more thing..These Clinical trial is done Privately (not Goverment funded) and involve patient own funding…Our govt has their own clinical trial going on with pharmacotherapy headed by Big pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer….Looks like E-cigarette is being the better option at the moment

Note the the Big Pharma involvement! Tropical Bob

I will present my clinical trial findings to the government for further assessment once it is ready for presentation..right now I’m trying to convince my fellow medical doctors (skeptics..hah!) that this thing works…you’ll never know till you try isn’t it?

Thanks for your reply and sure you can post this anywhere as long it can prove to be helpful….My ministry of health will be listening to this options soon as they are desperate to fight the smoking problems here in Malaysia.In our country, smoking is prevalent among the younger groups now and that is not easy battle going on…raising the price of cigarettes doesn’t seems to help and social conformnity to this problems tends to be the issue here.

My Clinical trial will be in a study form and medical parameters will apply…Just by removing one single exponential cause of major lung disease will help the country’s economy and general health of the populations (provided the Cigarette companies does not fight back with the dirty money)…It will not only generally benefit the smokers but the whole country environment as well…

My biggest problem will be the lower income groups of people who can’t afford the existing price of this devices will still be smoking the traditional cigarette..that’s why we need to create cheaper devices rivaling that of traditional cigarettes….hopefully some the manufacturers will comply and help ….we dream of a world free of pollutions and that is now within our grasp…just the financial cost and reliability issues remains…I will give hope for this because I myself and many others in this Forum still learning to improve and contribute to make this thing work….Thanks katink for reading and thanks for your approval..that will encourage a lot of people…..

I will publish out a medical data for the public as well as for the govt…hoping for some sort of financial subsidy to help out my lower income groups of patients (I’m using my own money to subsidise my patients..free e-liquids refill for those undergoing NRT program..time for me to pay back to the society

Today was a hectic day…just came home…very tired…getting old….
Was thinking of Lions/Rotary earlier on but not wishing to bother them for they too are very tied down with their own Agenda….I will hit out directly to the Govt/MOH…that will be more effective..
Anyway..we will be approaching our Local Airlines soon i.e, AirAsia and MAS to test out their regulations..they have shown interest in this new age smoking..hopefully for the better.
Thanks for all the support and advices given..it does help a lot…and encourage me on to eliminate the scrouge evil weed influence on humankind…thanks also to E-cig company for making this all possible…My patients thank you all for all the good work done and hope for better future for all smokers and non-smokers alike…

My first beneficial results of using e-cig is (from patients data) marked and rapid improvements of incidence of Sinusitis and bronchitis…All my patients with chronic history of Sinusitis and Bronchitis has reported a significant reduction of problems/symptoms…100% acheived for phlegm/mucus reduction. Much less runny nose and sneezing bouts, that means incidence of upper respiratory tract infection has dropped drastically…in about 10 patients out of 100 reported decreased Snoring events and reported improved sleep state (much reduced sleep apnoea incidence.)..I’m very happy with this outcome as this proves our theory Vapor from the e-cig devices does somehow does help to moistuirize the ENT passages.
All the above will help to reduce medical cost of ENT problems encountered by smokers/passive smokers…the incidence of Rhinitis and ENT problems among the household members also was greatly reduced..the kids no longer had runny nose(Another beneficial effects..no doubt about that!)..that means far less pollution at home…that’s an added bonus….

I will be giving out more good news as this trial progresses ..next on will the Lung Function Test…and medical parameters like Blood Pressure and Heart rate (those are linked to Nicotine effects)….Hope this all will be informative and helpful to all….

…I’m dealing with roughly 250 patients with these devices and 340 patients without the device but on pharmacotherapy medication and large number of smokers (unconverted)..need these 3 groups to do a comparison study on effectiveness of either methods/traditional smokers….

Yes, I’m actually running these trials on my own because some of my fellow doctors are either skeptical or just plain ignorant..(maybe some are afraid even?)….Thank god at least my patients are willing to cooperate with these trial…Still a long way to go…

I am also servicing my trial patients devices to make sure it runs smoothly and teaching them the maintenance part (which takes a lot of work and education)…Developed several types of Cleaning Solutions for them just in case the device gets clogged up or malfunction..Somehow these liquids able to ‘reset’ the devices…very reassuring for my patients to have these liquids around so they use the devices without fear and assurance..If these devices fails to function, it will draw frustration and loss of confidence on my trial patients….therefore very important to teach our patients about the ‘break-in period’ once they first start to use the devices…a lot of patience needed there…I’m on call 24 hours daily to handle these irregularities just in case it happens….it is tough and tiring but in the end it is also very rewarding if I able to ’save’ my smoker patients from myriad of diseases caused by traditional cigarette…Will be posting more results as time passes…This trial will run for at least 6 months or even longer if my MOH requires..Gotta have solid proof (pros and cons) before I face them..

Hope when the time comes to face the jury,I will have enough backing from my fellow skeptics doctors and with my collective data (precious!!) to battle them….The Giant Pharmaceutical Companies and The Big Tobacco company awaits but I do not tremble at their feet or fear them but rejoiced in a renewed Battle….

Thanks to all who read this thread..I will do my very best to help as much as I could…God speed…..

Right now while I’m typing these down, I’m in a discussion with a Government representive ( a fellow politician) to meet the Minister of Health.Wish me luck….

Mammoth task or not..I chose to challenge it…becuz I’m sick of losing patients and friends to smoking related diseases….been looking for a cure..even tried traditional medicine..that was 3 years ago…failed that was…makes me even more hungrier to search for a cure..dreamt of this devices years ago but did not have the capabilities to make it..glad someone else made it….now is the time to try again…

My trial started on 2nd February 2008…the first user was me…I knew it will work somehow becuz I dreamt of this device long ago and now it has become a reality…..I have so far ‘Dissected’ 3 of my own devices to see the ‘anatomy’ of this woderful but yet simple creation…I found its weakness and its failing..dreamt of further improvement…I even welded a hypodermic needle onto the steel wool area in hope to draw more fluid to the main core but it created other host of problems(the needle breaks too easily upon inserting the cartridge…change the white wool to high absorbent sponge..(burnt badly and damage my 4th Atomiser and I got bad cough for 3 to 4 days)…Now in the process a marine algae to produce a low heat residue/easy to melt and incorporated with E-liquids purchased from this site…so far alot of gooey mess at my workstation(wife gets pretty mad at the mess I made but thank god she understands).

I have spent days and nights trying differrent formulations and lots of money (been bashing my credit cards so much until my banks called me up wondering I need extra spending limit!!)….

Anyway…The good news today is the Airline representative has shown interest and wanted a full demo…I’m gonna gather at least 20 or more E-smokers to cram into a cabin simulation to show them it will be safe to smoke in the airplane….and hopefully they will allow the sales of this e-cigs/products to fellow smokers on long haul(hope this will encourage and promote e-smoking further….)

The second good news is most likely the media here in Malaysia will allow us to advertise in newspaper and they wanted an interview soon (If that happens, I will definitely put a link here in these threads…Hope it will be soon)

Now for the Bad news…they (the MOH) wants a longer duration of this trial and our government at this moment(post election) is still in a mess…they lost a lot of seats in the Parliment to the opposition recently (first time in Malaysian History)…They are too busy but I feel I should take advantage now since they’ll do anything to win back the confidence of our people… Hope I’m right on that account….

Whoa!..It’s been a long day…thanks for reading and hope for the best tomorrow…

Do you realize that most atomisers have their own ‘character’?…some are quirky and some are cooperative..and some just refuse to mature?…well, I am dealing with all this atomisers daily…testing out almost close to 20 atomisers a day…I developed a tube pipe to test these individual pipes..simple construction for diagnostic troubleshooting as well as for repairing malfunction units…I even made one tubing for Bikers (to smoke during their long rides inside their helmets..haha..my biker friends loved it..handy for long distance rides but dried up their mouth pretty fast too so now searching for 2 way valve to connect it to a water bottle too!)..still in experimental stage

I’m having my dentist friends involved also because they will assist me for dental effects recording (to see whether rate of Tartar buildup will be slowed by our new e-smoking method)..that means less dental problems for E-smokers..

There’s a lot of work to be done and very promising things are in store…Almost all systems in our body affected by smoking is being countered by this new method..It will no doubt change a lot of things.

Those willing to convert to E-cigarrette is no doubt a person/individual cared for his/her health and surrounding environment..Who says smokers are selfish and self-centred lot!!!..I’m going all out to prove that we (smokers) are also a responsible people who wants to make a change for the better not for ourselves but for all that around us.

Happy to report a 8% increase in success rate for smokers to cease smoking traditional cigarettes…that means 98% success …VERY HIGH RATE…I’m very pleased…usually effectiveness begins by Day 2 of continual usage of the e-cig…..A 30 cigs per day smoker can stop smoking to 0 cigs in less than a week!!……

Overall Blood pressure of non-hypertensive smokers were better and much reduced heart rate to normal baseline of 70 bpm…..For Hypertensive patients on the device noted decreased pulse rate as well far happier outcome with significant amount of reduction in complications arising from reduce pollutants..i.e., less snoring , less or total absence of coughing bout with or without phlegm….,less stressful feeling and also increase in sense of well being(able to exercise more without shortness of breath)…and most important..NO INCREASE IN WEIGHT!!! in fact patient reported better weight control than those using pharmacotherapy…

I got lots of good results compared to the other two groups until my patients from the other two groups are asking for a change to the devices which at the current moment out of stock (awaiting shipment from NJOY).

This is one of the most successful trials ever conducted so far…The potential of this method is far untapped!….

My big stumbling block now will be the disclaimer found at the manual book or at NJOY website.."THIS IS NOT A CEASEATION THERAPY"..but it clearly shows that it can do that…..I am hoping to change that once my full trial presented to health ministries and hopefully the world take note of this…..Pray for my trial success and any help or suggestion will be truly appreciated…..

Someone has remove swami and dnakr post about the reliability of Njoy devices…To be fair to this company hosting this site, Not all Atomisers are built to last…Out of 20 Njoy devices, there will be almost 5 devices with Atomisers defect as well as Battery/Charger problems too…I serviced personally closed to 200 devices of Njoy brand for the last month with problems…yes Njoy is reliable but also has its fair share of problems..that’s where I learnt of each atomiser characters and faults…my own 2 Njoy devices crashes on me too..that’s why I would like to collect more brand types and do an overall review for all (if my credit card permits me!! )..becuz reliability of each devices plays a big role in my clinical trial..If it fails to perform then my patient will lose confidence and restart back smoking real cigarettes..

The e-cig .com products has it value for it’s money…take good care of the devices they will serve you well..irrespective of the brand…Remember, all this is still in it’s infancy stage..and we are the pioneers users…Be proud of that and be grateful for its technological worth…

rcbowden
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 28

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject:

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jimldk: I hope you videotaped the 20 e-smokers on the airplane. That should be posted on YouTube for the rest of the world to see. Most people I meet with my e-cigar have never even heard of such a device. We need to use media like YouTube to spread the word on a new, non-tobacco smoke product that is safe for use in "no smoking" areas.

Love your posts and the work you’re doing. You are indeed pioneering. Please do keep posting what you try — successes and failures. We can all learn and benefit.
_________________
TropicalBob

Hope they allow me to videotaped the events when the time come…shall ask for permission by Monday….Heard it will be a full cabin simulation with the extra’passengers’ and with trainee steward and stewardess…..

Thanks for your encouraging words..hope it will benefit all of you (and the world too?)..How’s your cough,Tropical Bob??…read your post at the other forum…sounds pretty nasty and might related to the ‘Propylene Glycol’ content…In my trials there was a few early on coughing bouts but it becomes less as I taught my smokers to ’sip’ mild green tea/ or suck on dried salted plums(to increase saliva production in the mouth)..it helps to reduced mild allergic response to inhaled propylene glycol….Hope it helps..if your cough persists please do see a doctor, you might be getting Bronchitis…take care bud…pm me if you need help…|||A heartfelt thanks to the good doctor who had the foresight to recognize the possible health advantages, and the courage of his convictions to establish the clinical trials. And thanks to you, Tropical Bob, for bringing this to the forum.

wb||| |||I also ride and would love to try this tubing.

Rachel|||I would love to know what kind of refill liquids he has developed, and if that is something we could do ourselves.
He also mentions a cleaning liquid for use when the atomizer stops working.

|||This doctor is definitely someone I’d enjoy meeting and working with. Here are the most recent posts, beginning with one I made to him:

Could you write a bit more about:

1. New ways to improve atomzing?

2. The new flavors you created and how you added flavoring (I’ve added pure vanilla extract — flavor and alcohol only — and improved the taste for me)?
_________________
TropicalBob

jimldk

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Malaysia
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject:

——————————————————————————–

Atomisers requires gentle handling when first started…I had lots of problem when handling it for the first time…All atomisers are built unequal, means some are shallower and some are sharper tip….means the gap between the steel wool and the cartridge end (like spark plug gap)…that will also influence the amount of air interacting with the liquid burning process..that’s why some atomiser when being used feels empty(like sucking in air only, i.e, less vapor..less volume)….that’s why Dry smoking/Drip method gives better results….So what I did was adding more contact space (narrowing the gap) without causing burns by welding/soldiering onto the steel wool an additional ’steel wool’ looks like a small bump on the tip (wish I can draw it out). It gives better burnt rate…and lots more vapor..that’s one method…the other method is still in testing mode..that involves a needle..will let you know later on if it works..

I also developed a special cleaning solutions to ‘wash out’ the atomiser every 2 days or so…it helps to mature the atomiser better..so far all my patients are using this solution (which I named CS-2) are having good results ..sustained and productive Atomisers compared with those not using it….

I also developed a plastic tubing with a mouth piece attached at one end and a connector to the atomiser for proper dry smoking method..easy to built..A clear plastic tube (like those used in the aquarium tube) but much bigger with a diameter of 1cm and length of 25 cm….wrapped some cellophane tape to fit into the atomiser at least 0.5 cm depth and sucked it out..you’ll like it..like a small electronic hookah pipe…works very well…been making this for a lot of my patients. The amount of vapors tends to be more and denser….

The Flavors I created is mainly from fruits Esther those with higher sugar content like banana..need not ferment but need it to be very ripe..I chose Cavendish due to its better aroma…I mashed up almost a full kilo to get a little bit of final product..then wrapped the mushed up banana pulp in a 5 layered muslin cloth and steam it to drip down onto a funnel like collector bowl(like those used in the lab)….later distilled it over small light fire to produce the Banana essence(the whole house will be filled with this smell)it is a long process but worth it…collected almost 6 ml of pure banana essence and mixed it with regular E-liquid (independent of strength and don’t use tasteless) with a ratio of 1:5 or 1:3 depending on the amount of aroma you want…..

Today I experimented with Black Roasted Coffee..the aroma is very heady so far but I can’t get rid of the Black coloring (still working on it..any clues? anyone?)

I will try to avoid the alcohol part by reheating the final product to deactivate the alcohol..believe it will cause some irritation to users….

Hope it helps…lots more to discover…cheers….|||The latest exchange with Malaysian doctor.

Fantastic work! I’m reposting much of what you write to http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com, where I contribute regularly.

Is there a formula we could use to create a solution for cleaning the atomizer?
_________________
TropicalBob

jimldk

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Malaysia
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject:

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Thanks for the response..was very kind of you and dnakr to update the other forum..very grateful for that ..Hope it will benefit / help you all…I’m trying hard to make this work and in the right direction and I still need clues and help from all of you irrespective whether small or big ideas…

As for the Cleaning Solution..the idea was actually started when I realised empty cartridge wasn’t really empty at all (should not waste it, recycle was in mind )…the time I did not have any E-liquid to deal with…you might laugh at this but it actually work after I modified it further…..

Don’t throw away your empty cartridge wool….it was a greasy kind of feel to it once it is nearly empty…take it out and put it into a empty 5 ml eyedropper bottle…add in 3ml of Normal saline and 1 ml of E-liquid(preferably regular flavor)….capped it with the eyedropper tip and shake it well(before each use)…you should get a light straw colored liquid with the wool acting as a ’stabiliser’..

The logic was to drop it into the atomiser(2-3drops)..dry smoking style… if the vapor production gets much less…let it soak for at least a full minute and then slowly and gently draw it (suck onto the atomiser without cartridge and mouthpiece) out..you’ll feel the steam evaporate first and then the vapor will begins… Steam will automatically trigger the cleaning process…..keep on drawing on it till you’ll feel a different kind of taste and vapor gets much less..then use a full new cartridge or drip smoke it(if you want)..you’ll see a much increase in vapor and volume as well..repeat the cleaning process 2 to 3 days later or when vapor becomes much less….You can also add 2-3 drops directly onto a half empty cartridge..it will also function somewhat the same….but that will dilute your nicotine density but I found after doing that I felt rather ‘full’ and ’satisfied’…funny feeling but does not seems to show any side effects so far and it also reduced your ’smoking’ time after that…less likely to pick up the atomiser after cleaning was done…weird but good…Try it out guys..hope you all will like it.

I was supposed to patent this but I feel it is not right to hoard this to myself..give back to the world and share as much as I can….Good luck on trying it out…Oh ,another thing …the CS(cleaning Solution) does help you to change flavors easily too…. Cheers.And then there’s this. I had to read it twice to get the idea, but now I see how the needle conducts liquid directly to atomizer. Most ingenious.

I called this the Needle Project …

You’ll need a new disposable hypodermic needle size of 25G x 5/8-0.5×16mm(means: 25 gauge and 5/8-0.5×16mm length)..should be brown/orange plastic connector….cut the plastic connector to 1/3rd with the needle intact….stick into a cartridge wool (full/half filled with liquid..mine works with Njoy..might work with other brands) in the centre and push all the way in till the needle stop..don’t puncture the cartridge..you’ll notice the wool will be pushed back and liquid will fill up but don’t worry if it also fill the cut end of the needle..you can top up later with e-liquids..now reinsert the cartridge with the modified needle into your atomiser..don’t worry, it won’t be burnt…start smoking…you’ll feel a sudden change in the flow of vapor..cooler to the tip of the tongue and far more dense….please try…you’ll like it…250 patients of mine love it..far superior but it can consume a bit more liquid..it is like dry smoking but with the cartridge inserted and if the ‘fuel’ gets low..jerk it like a pen running out of ink..you’ll get a instant refill automatically….I find it far better in burning up th e-liquid and producing better vapor….

Second tip…keep your container cap(mine is the Njoy type) and cap it over your mouthpiece tip when you are not using the device …use it like a pen cap (same principle to prevent your pen/marker from drying up)and you’ll be conserving moisture within the atomiser(save losses of liquids through the mouthpiece)..you’ll be surprised it actually help in producing your first billow of vapor….

More tips to come..as fast as I can discover it….Let me know if you have any problems…cheers….From Doc. Jim.Loi., Malaysia. As you see fit, for all of our benefit, it would be nice if you could keep us updated on what you learn about (1) do-it-yourself liquid or liquid modification, and (2) hardware issues you encountered and how you dealt with them. You have been THE pioneer out there and we would appreciate your continued counsel.

If a government won’t listen to you, well .. we will!Dr. Loi: I saw that Heritage Vegetable Glycerine is sold on Amazon, so it could be ordered online. And my thinking right now is that the liquor additive is helping clean the atomizer, so I will continue using it until somebody tells me I’m ruining (1) lungs, (2) atomizer. I just add Kahlua liquor until the viscosity is what I need for vaporizing the same as with e-liquid.

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Sorta noob questions here:

1.Since the main hazardous substance in e-cigs as well as regular cigs (besides tobacco in regular ones) is nicotine, what happens when you suck the vapor into your mouth and taste the flavor, but only blow it back out and never inhale it into your lungs? Does the nicotine still go into your bloodstream through your mouth/tongue somehow since you still feel that burning on your tongue? Or does this really only happen when you fully inhale into your lungs before blowing out again? How bad is this?

Is there even anything hazardous to your health at all by just sucking the e-cig vapor into your mouth and blowing out and not actually inhaling? Also, how do the answers to these questions differ (if at all) with different strength liquids?

Just trying to get a health effect gauge for a person who might e-smoke but not inhale every time (and that does NOT refer to me..lol). It was sort of a discussion among me and some roommates earlier.

2. Also, how true/possible is the speed-up of existing cancerous cells caused by nicotine as seen in this article?:
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/200…ds-lung-cancer
I know e-cigs are supposed to be less dangerous, but things like that still worry me very much.

3. Finally, are e-cigarettes supposed to affect your throat the way regular cigs do? Like sore throat/painful throat after smoking a bunch of times? Does it affect your teeth?

Thanks!|||good questions…I am looking forward for the educated to answer.|||Thanks, me too. I mean I know some partial answers. Like yes, nicotine is still absorbed just from being in your mouth and not inhaling. But for instance, I don’t know how much it is still absorbed and how harmful it is when e-smoking. And I know nicotine can cause heart problems and such but I am just unclear on the differences between the dangers of cigarettes and the danger of e-cigarettes even after reading all about e-smoking. If anyone can answer all/some of any of my first post, I would appreciate it.

Also, to add to the first post, how many chemicals are in e-cig liquid..comparing to the hundreds in cigarettes?

AND (sorry, I can’t edit the last post anymore)…

If one can get away with smoking the low strength liquids/carts, is this much healthier/better than smoking med-extra high strength? Is it worth it trying to smoke low level exclusively??

I know that’s a lot of questions and they are scattered all over this thread, but I am very anxious to know the answers from you guys.|||just, I vap mostly low an medium. I plan to move to none. I enjoy it all the same. The medium when it is an occassionally ecig to do with the burning tobacco users…or light when I just want to sit and vap for long periods of time, sometimes just enjoying the taste and "not inhaling" as our previous pres put it.|||Do you notice a difference in taste or feeling between medium and low at all?

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A friend of mine is a press officer for the Royal College of General Practitioners and was very interested in all the e-smoking paraphernalia I carry about. We talked at length about it. My friend now seems professionally interested in the device and is considering drawing up a document for distribution to UK GPs and possible (probable) release to the press.

I’m posting this because I’d like everybody’s opinion. Do you think it is a good idea at this stage for these devices to be brought to the attention of medical professionals (or any wider audience at all), or would it be better to continue flying under the radar, as some of our members feel?

If I were to speak at length, all I could really do is refer my friend to Dr Laugesen’s report to the WHO, as my personal impressions of e-smoking are worthless for something like this.

I’m pretty much frozen in place at the moment (I’m not going to do anything until I’ve seen Doctor Laugesen’s report, or the excerpts from it that Bob is permitted to update us with).

So, what do you think?

Emp|||Emp, I think it’s a great idea. I know I feel better since I have not smoked regular cigarettes. Don’t know yet though if inhaling the vapor causes any damage. Also, these e-cig devices and their pieces and parts need to last longer or perhaps be disposable. But press releases at this time might just be the thing we need. I can understand the dilema though; will they take them off the market? I’m addicted to my e-cigs now and I don’t want to go back!|||This will not remain secret for much longer, Emp. With you guiding him, he should go for it. Educate the educators — the doctors — so they have knowledge to help addicted smokers. As for the public, some press has already shown interest — but e-smoking has little news value until a disaster happens. Then it will be on every front page.

Just let one child playing "afternoon tea" drink one thimble of e-liquid, and die, and e-smoking will get its publicity.

So better the public has a good story by a good scribe than ignorant ads from greedy resellers making unsubstantiated claims in back alleys of the Web. But stick with him, Emp; read his work; point him in the direction of what we know, what we fear, what we hope. Most articles so far have been dreadful. See that his isn’t.|||Harsh comments TB about resellers. Although these devices might not cost the chinese much by the time weve paid are imports duties, transfer fees, commisions etc we dont all make a killing. As for publicity dont they say all publicity is good publicity. I think the sooner a few professionals get to hear about this the sooner proper tests will be carried out. I for one would rather risk my money on a venture that is regualted. At least I was in near the beggining and I hope that will give me an advantage from when the countless others start reselling.|||Paxes, the good guys will know who they are. The bad ones don’t care. We all visit various Web sites. We read crap claims. We see for ourselves. Be a truthful and supportive reseller, and good wishes to you.|||I hope nobody minds me updating this for a while because I want to keep it near the top for more replies. I’m quite hopeful about this - the RCGP is a pretty level-headed and useful organisation, not to mention authoritative because they represent the family docs at the sharp end here in the UK.

My PO friend is an ex-smoker (but not self-righteous about it) and what caught her attention is she has seen me trying and failing to give up smoking for years and never thought I would be able to do it. The killer point is I gave up hot cigarettes with no great effort or murderous withdrawal. I told her it’s not uncommon in my experience of talking with other users of the devices.

I think GPs as a whole would be behind this, if they get the information from a source they’re used to (and trust). It’s gotta be an old story with them that longterm users just aren’t going to stop smoking and I’m sure they have no more faith in the available cessation products than we have (although I suppose they go on reccomending them to try and cut the damage from burning tobacco). I can’t think of a single other recommendation to their older (smoking) patients that would be of even equal benefit.

I know we have lots of serious concerns about PG inhalation, but the harm reduction argument must surely carry weight here, although we’re obviously a long way from realising the necessary clinical data to allow docs to speak out in favour. It would mean a lot to me if this went towards promoting further study.

Emp|||Just as long as they don’t stop letting the device save lives while they take their years-long time to study if it might not harm a big toe or little finger doing so… and as long as they keep their eyes wide open for WHY it is succesfull (as in: not regulated into infinity and uselessness… and cheap enough to not lock out those groups needing it most… and ‘colourful’ and ‘tasteful’ enough to attract the users even bef贸re they fall ill to smoking tobacco, so heck, in time even)… |||I think you know my thoughts on this already……Go for it! Educate the educators as TB says.|||Go for it emp..you get the right attention and then some….in my earlier post, I do urge people to show and demo it to their doctors..it is the only choice and if possible to an existing smoking medical practioner…that will help a lot..so please help him out as much as possible…I don’t mind sharing my data if any medical doctors ask for it…|||My advice mate, is to go for it as well…. I have been talking up the virtues of our little devices to anyone who will listen around my little patch of the medical researchers… and framing it as an alternative to the nasty old stuff rings true to their ears as well. I am this close to having a renowned pulmonologist ready to take a critical look at the phenomenon.

At this point we can still (somewhat) control the message… if a scenario like Bob suggests occurs…. forget about it. We go from proactive to reactive in .05 senconds…

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I just tore apart my car, removing the seats cuz I dropped my mini batt while driving - I spent an hour doing it lol…. it ended up being stuck in my steering column!|||Yeah, I’d have done the same. ||| makes me feel better that I’m not alone!
|||That’s still not as bad as dropping a real, lit cigarette between your legs while ripping along at 70 mph — and not being able to see it! Where did it go? grope..grope..omigod…

Bet this has happened to everyone here. |||or flicking your butt out the window only to find in flew straight back in and is now burning up your rear seats whilst you’re driving along…. uh oh!!!|||….or lighting a smoke while being hit by a car and flying over the hood and……..

Ok…wait… that one could just be me. lol

Tex ||| |||DUDE! You let a tailor-made lawsuit opportunity get away! That’s the American Dream!! ||| |||Or the time I borrowed my friends brand new car to get to class, and someone in the back seat rolled the window down a "crack"… just enough for a spark… and the whole car burned, from the inside out….Oh yeah, their insurance hadn’t gone through yet…cuz I was out today on ecigs… I smoked an entire pack of marlboro reds. The first time I ever smoked an entire pack a day in my life…. e-cigging really does give you more nic!

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