They are marketed as dissolvable tobacco, and from what I can gather are highly powdered, flavoured and compressed tablets of tobacco. I suppose they are aimed at the dipping tobacco market, since the website makes great play on the fact that there’s no spitting needed! Clearly there’s no spitting with the medicinal product either, and absolutely NO TSNAs (Tobacco-specific nitrosamines - the cancer causing agents in tobacco and tobacco smoke).|||I’ve used both, so can comment with some authority. Basically, I use Stonewall because of price. Pure and simple. The things are cheaper per piece than any of the now over-the-counter nicotine replacement offerings. I have a friend hooked on lozenges and he’d save money going back to his cigarette habit. Another friend has been hooked on gum for two years and is a non-stop chewer. Too expensive! Plus, lozenges do not serve up enough nicotine to give an ex-smoker a hit, so cravings remain. Ditto for all the other offerings that max out at 4mg.
Let me add that Stonewall (I used Ariva when it first hit the market) can’t satisfy me alone, anymore than some gum or lozenge can. I still love to smoke, not inhale, a pipe. I’m using the new e-Pipe now in some non-smoking environments. When I’m about to go nuts, I use Oliver Twist bits. HEAVY nicotine hit. I’ve worked out a rotation combination that works for me, and keeps me from deeply inhaling smoke. I know the damage it did, and would continue to do.
Also let me plug snus in dry pouches. I’ll comment further on this in the special forum for snus. I use them almost non-stop, even while smoking a pipe.|||So i contacted the makers of Stonewall/Ariva and they are sending me a box of each product and blend to try out. I just called to find out where i could buy it and they offered it to me.
So far the service has been great and the lady was really nice.
-Dusty-|||I hope you enjoy them as much as I do, Dusty. The Java flavored Stonewall bits are daily fare for me. They’re the first thing I reach for when I awaken each morning and the first thing I do after completing dinner. My local tobacco store stocks them for me and I go through about four boxes a week. That’s in addition to several tins of snus and my e-smoking. (Oh, and about four pipes of real tobacco each day.) I know I could not do without Stonewall, among everything I use. I’d almost rank it first on my own list.
It did take time to get used to the bits. There’s no instant nicotine hit as with cigarettes. They take about 45 minutes to dissolve in the mouth. But they maintain a steady-state nicotine level in the blood. And they taste great (I buy java exclusively).
Post your thoughts after a few days of using them. (And you’ll hate the tamper-proof container.)|||i’ll let you know how i like them.
The NM distributor is supposed to call me on monday so hopefully i’ll actually know where to buy them.
Went to the local tobacconist to see if they carried snus, and they don’t. They did say that they should be carrying it by the end of next month, so we’ll see how that goes.
Where do you buy your snus? online or local?
-Dusty-|||Rat, could you give me the contact info? I wanna try, too. I’m not interested in it for regular use, but as Bob said, backup systems are always good. |||http://www.disolvabletobacco.com/
that is their webpage. i called the number that is listed on the "get connected" page.
They claim Ariva is sold at walgreens and rite-aid, but i didn’t see it here. granted i only went ot like one walgreens that was in the ghetto.
-Dusty-|||Thanks, Rat. I’ll check it out later.|||no problem at all.
-Dusty-|||Dusty: I buy snus at a Sarasota tobacco store (Tobacco Depot chain) AND online. The only Swedish varieties available in the U.S. are a limited amount from Swedish Match, the biggest snus company. I buy CatchDry Peppermint, which tastes like a breath mint, is quite weak in nicotine, and lasts for an hour or more per portion. They also sell General portions, which are somewhat stronger and have a tobacco taste. Avoid loose snus. You want portions/little teabag-like pouches.
In some parts of the country, you can now find Camel and Marlboro snus being test-marketed. I like them. Both are tasty .. and weak in nicotine. The Marlboro is extremely weak, leading some to conclude snus is being set up for failure, to keep smokers on cigarettes. There’s also SkoalDry Cinnamon, which Skoal doesn’t call a snus, but it is. It tastes like Dentyne chewing gum.
Online, from either http://www.northerner.com or http://www.buysnus.com, I order Wise snus, both tasteless and citrus/menthol (I don’t like the regular Wise flavor). These are extremely potent snus that can spin your world in 10 minutes if you combine it with, say, e-smoking. Voice of experience speaking here. I use the 6mg Wise dry portions, not the weaker 3mg ones. The tasteless is wonderful and can be used with any drink or food, without messing up the taste.
By way of comparison, a cigarette might have 1.5mg of nicotine. You suck that into your system in 10 minutes. A Wise 6mg hits your system about 10 minutes after you place it between check and gum! It’s much stronger than a cigarette and much stronger than e-smoking 24mg liquid. If the strength ever bothers you, take that one out and try again later. Or use 3mg snus.
Lucky Strike is a good snus with a tobacco taste. I also recommend snus aimed at women: Vertigo in both flavors and Romeo y Julieta Senorita. Despite what you might read on snus forums, don’t go for the strong or loose stuff that will grow hair on your shoulders. Most people won’t like it and will give up snusing. The beauty of this is not only that it provides needed nicotine, but that it does so invisibly. You can use these anywhere, anytime, and no one need know.
And the overall cost of snusing is far less than smoking cigarettes.
Hope this Snus 101 helps.It helps very much.
so the skoal dry is actually a snus? guessing it isn’t cured the same way as regular skoal?
Big Tobacco wants tobacco products to remain the rule. We are not even on their radar, not even a minor annoyance. This article speaks to where future growth lies for tobacco.|||And I still say they’re missing the boat. They’ve got the money, the distribution channels, the tobacco; if the big cig companies moved into e-cigs they could make our little hobby mainstream overnight, and preserve their income stream for the day real cigs get banned.|||No doubt, but I’m convinced they are just not interested. They do not make electronic gizmos. They make tobacco products — and we’re not a tobacco product. They don’t even make nicotine; they buy it. What they CAN do is give us a hard time if they want to. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.|||interesting, i agree with both of you. its weird that the big players in the tobacco industry seem to be shrugging their shoulders. i guess its like the big oil companies only feigning an interest in other sources of energy in order to make nice advertisements and appease our minds. big smoke don’t seem to care about a safe form of smoking unless that product contained the raw ingredient that they own and grow. still i agree, it is likely that they’ll get up to something sinister if it all starts kicking off, i’m already suspicious of big pharm and their possible meddling in recent egregious reports. perhaps they’re just letting it play out a little.|||lets keep church and state separate on this one . Do we really want Big Tobacco going full bore into our little hobby? Last time they did anything for us it was to add 4000 chemicals so that our smokes wouldn’t go out between puffsTags: nicotine, Other Alternatives to Smoking
Fast acting nicotine pouch, mouth spray and lozenge 聳 the NEWS Study 1 March 2008
See the final report http://www.healthnz.co.nz/NicoNovumSRNT2008Poster.pdf presented at the 14th SRNT meeting, Portland, Oregon, 2008.
The pouch and mouth spray were clinically effective and may give faster and greater relief of cravings than nicotine gum.
In 2007, nearly 80 smokers completed a phase three trial of three fast acting nicotine products in the NEWS study (Niconovum Evaluation of Withdrawal relief study) at Clinical Trials Research Unit, School of Population Health, University of Auckland. Dr Hayden McRobbie was the principal investigator, and Dr Laugesen of Health New Zealand, a co-investigator. This was sponsored by Heart Foundation and Niconovum AB, Sweden.|||What a surprise, huh? A pouch with nicotine that is absorbed through the mouth can reduce cravings. But notice that the pouch has this Big Pharma name. NicoNovum or something, the same as the company that funded this study. Bet it has an equally big price. But exactly how is it better than Swedish snus that cost about the same as a pack of cigarettes? Snus have been used for more than a hundred years, with no increase in tobacco-related cancers.
Let’s put it together: Big Tobacco is virtually betting its future is snus. We now have Camel, Marlboro and Lucky Strike pouches of snus (this is NOT chewing tobacco). We have new snus products, in fact, from every American tobacco company. And now we see that Big Pharmaceutical is betting part of its future NRT is a snus product, filled, of course, with medical-grade nicotine.
Wonder how they’ll view e-smoking when they spot it through the forest of snus they’re cultivating.
Full disclosure notice: I use snus daily, almost non-stop, in addition to e-smoking. Snus is my major source of nicotine, not e-smoking. Snus can be extremely potent and I’ve not found that with e-smoking 24mg liquid with massive clouds of vapor. What I love about e-smoking is how it duplicates the smoking motions I developed in 50 years of cigarette smoking. Snus for the addiction; e-cig for the habit. Better together.|||I couldn’t agree more TB. I have gone blurry eyed researching snus and stonewall and I really don’t see how big pharma is going to improve upon these products and if they taste as aweful as the gum and lozenges that big pharma has tried to feed us forget about it. Now if they can give us a product that contains no tsnas (or whatever the h*ll thier called) tastes as good or better than the java stonewalls I just got and cost about the same then hey I welcome another choice, but we have a better chance of the FDA classifying water as a class A carcinogen than that ever happening. That would actualy be kinda funny, I can just picture some poor kid being carded for a class of water at a resurant and public schools having to remove all thier water fountains.|||think you might like this site..
-Dusty-||| |||LOL dusty that was awesome, my favorite quote;
"DHMO is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful. "
i love it that made my day|||glad i could be of service.
panexa looks awesome. i need buckets of that stuff.Tags: cigar, medical, nicotine, Other Alternatives to Smoking, snus
Saw several mentions of rapid-release gum, nothing to indicate a timetable or why it isn’t on the market.
2005 Rapid-release nicotine gum versus nicotine polacrilex gum, I think the same study as above, completed.|||You know, it’s still mouth absorption — and that takes time. Among NRT products, I’m betting the nasal spray is best. Among non-medicinal products, nothing can beat the one we use when it comes to speedy delivery.
New slogan for RRNG: We’ll help you quit, by gum.|||Hehehehe pretty good TB! Are you going to be our resident sloganeer (along with homebrew artiste and officially Hot)?
Yeah, the nasal spray kicks.Tags: nicotine, Other Alternatives to Smoking
Just wanted to say… That’s great! Very good idea…
I’ve seen them a few places for $30 US. They fit about a six pack of cokes.
You should copy this to the General forum as well.Tags: e-liquid, Other Alternatives to Smoking, snus
I just got my 24 can sample pack in from northerner, holy crap! I now have a large shoebox sized tupperware in my fridge stuffed to the bri with snus! I’m tryin the nick and johnny strong portion right now, hoping for a really good nic hit from this stuff. Does anyone know, if you buy a lot more snus than you will probably go through before the best used by date, should you just keep it in the fridge or should you freeze it? I have 44 cans at this point and am not sure I’ll be going through it all before the date on the bottom of the cans.|||Unopened cans be stored for up to two years in your refrigerator. No need to freeze them. Even opened cans can survive about a year of refrigeration past their "best used by" date. Heat is the single big enemy of snus quality. Your supply should be fine in the fridge. If you use them at the rate I do, you have a five-month supply.
(You’re a snus pig!)|||LOL, oik oik, yup I’m a snus pig for sure It’s really interesting to try out all the different kinds. I really like all of the different catch dry I have tried, and the probe whiskey kind of tastes like BBQ. BTW the nick and Johnny strong is awesome, WOW, much better nic hit. The general maxi also packs a punch, I’ve been snus taste testing all day and I have more nic in my system than I’ve had in a long time, I’m sure I’ll calm down once I’ve sampled all the flavors, if I survive it Thanx for the info TB, good to know my snus will be o.k. in the fridge, now all I have to do is find space for groceries|||I’ve never used Snus and have no idea of their availability in UK. It’s probably a bad idea for me because anything I put in my mouth gets chewed (one of these days I’ll tell the contact lens story). However, I find myself actively seeking out every post by TB about Snus, and any thread that mentions them. The idea’s growing on me.
Dang, I’ll be smoking a pipe next…|||That’s nice that you do that. Snus is not going to be sold over-the-counter in the UK, since the EU banned sales and hasn’t yet repealed that edict. Sweden was the only exception, because of its widespread use and history in that country. Most American snusers order online from The Northerner or Buysnus. Exceptional service from either. Americans have no problems with customs when importing snus. Not sure about your situation. If you ever need specific, private advice, PM me.Tags: flavor, flavors, Other Alternatives to Smoking, snus
I just stumbled on them while googling smokeless cigarettes. They seem to use a chemical eaction to vaporize a nicotine solution. Each "cigarette" recharges between use, so you keep using the same one for 3 days or so. Supposedly, anyhow.
Took the plunge and ordered a pack. I’ll let you all know how it goes.
http://www.aerosinfo.com/order.cfm|||Same question in general discussion, but this is probably a better place.
Yes, I’ve tried them and they do work as advertised. You will notice that they have a very low nicotine level. They don’t satisfy the cravings of heavy smokers. And they are harsh to inhale, which can create coughing fits as you get used to the item.
The site gives all this info, and my experience with them is that they function as advertised. No surprises, and the order arrived quickly.|||Harsh? HARSH? This ain’t just harsh, it’s gargling fiberglass dust harsh! It’s deep-throating sandpaper phalluses harsh! It’s … OK, I ran out of steam on that. Anyone else have any more to suggest?
Point being, this thing is NASTY, with a capital N.
OK, first, a discription. The Aeros is a white plastic flattened cylinder, slightly pinched together in the middle, and sealed on both ends. You have to cut off both ends with scissors, and inside is a folded papery substance, I presume to be tobacco laced with some chemical delivery system. You just inhale through it, and the air somehow picks up the nicotine as it passes. You keep puffing on it as long and often as you want. If you deplete the nicotine, let it rest, and it’ll recharge somehow, and you can puff away again for a while. It’s supposed to last for up to 3 days, depending on use.
I used to smoke lights or ultra-lights, so my tolerance is lower than most, so YMMV, but I can feel the hit fairly well. It feels about like the medium strength e-liquid, or so. And the menthol flavour is also strong, almost overpowering. Without the visible smoke, the experience is somewhat lacking, but it would do fine for an airplane or restaurant, for example. If the rush and the taste were the whole sensation.
But the strongest sensation is not the rush, or the taste, but the horrible burning in the back of the mouth and the throat. If you just take one or two hits, it’s OK. A bit of a stinging feeling like strong mouthwash. Or a bit too much e-smoke. But too many hits, and it gets worse, untill it feels like your throat’s being scoured with steel wool. And it keeps on stinging each time you breathe.
Now, they send you a letter which says, paraphrased, that it takes some time to get used to smoking it, and you should give it at least THREE PACKS to get used to it!! B’ F’ing ****!! I am not, say again, NOT, gonna PAY to be tortured like this two more times, and at $27 plus shipping and tax, each, no less.
I’ll keep taking an occasional puff or two a few times a day, and if it gets better by the end of the pack, I’ll consider buying another, because i really want it to work, so I’ll have an option for times and places where even the e-cig isn’t allowed. But that’s it. If this burning doesn’t stop, Aeros is out.||| |||I tried them too & found it too harsh, even when taking a small puff. Always make me cough & I can’t get use to them. For a smokeless cigarette, I prefer Smokers Option for the menthol flavor & the hand/mouth habit. I prefer my njoy the most for the "smoke vapor" it creates & more like a real cig.Tags: burning, cigar, e-liquid, flavor, nicotine, Other Alternatives to Smoking
Big thumbs up for snus as part of a harm reduction or quit program. Last year, I used Swedish snus and Kahlua cigars to stay off cigarettes 85 days. Whoopee, huh. This year, snus have been part of a quit-cigarette plan that is now more than six months along. The e-Cig e-Pipe is the latest addition in my plan.
A few words of advice about snus: The standard, wet Swedish product is VERY yucky tasting. Anyone who likes that must have severely damaged taste buds. You’ll spit just to get the taste out of your mouth. Move to the dry flavored pouches. I began with snus like Catch (now sold in my local tobacco store in the U.S.) and then moved down in nicotine hit to a product called XQs. XQs had a coffee flavor I found refreshing and the pouch was so small it was invisible under the lip. I liked it. So, naturally, the company went out of business and I can no longer get my favorite.
But American companies are testing snus now and I found Skoal Dry Cinnamon to be acceptable. I look forward to trying the Camel products .. just haven’t seen them for sale yet. (Skoal wet pouches are dreadful, in my opinion, so I’ve stopped trying them. I’ve also chatted with too many toothless chewing tobacco addicts to even think of using that product). Not long ago, I tried dry Lucky Strike snus. Not good. Some snus products taste so bad they enduce nausea. I’ve had to throw some cans away after repeated tries.
I use snus daily, and they’re about the only solution acceptable in, say, a movie theater. They do not draw ANY attention to the user. Can’t say that for my e-Pipe, which makes me the focus of conversation.
Just search "snus" on the Internet and you’ll find the outlets that ship snus worldwide. They’re not expensive, so mistakes are not costly ones as with some electronic smoking purchases. Do NOT start with the oversize pouches or you’ll most likely give up with the notion that only hard-core chewing tobacco freaks would enjoy such a product. Try several dry, mini portion snus. They can complement your e-smoking.|||tropical bob, you are the man! Had you not mentioned snus on this forum i would have never discovered such a wonderful product. I just got my shipment from the northener.com . i ordered some wise mini dry pouches- 6mg nicotine they are great! indeed an excellent companion to e-smoking.|||TB i forgot to ask you, how long should i keep a snuss pouch in my mouth? maximum time? thanks :?|||I tried Camel SNUs and liked the Frost flavor (minty). The Camel portion seem to be a little larger than many Swedish minis so I’ve ordered some real minis after reading up on the SNUs users forum at http://www.snuson.com/
Also found some interesting articles on the Marlboro SNUs that are or will be on the market, speculating on why they have so little nicotine….
http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking … eless.html
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/5/1/9|||Grimmy, leave a snus in place as long as you want. I average an hour or so for most. The strong ones I might leave only 30 minutes. A CatchDry Peppermint can stay in place easily an hour or more and still have excellent taste. I’m due to place an order now, and Wise snus are always on my list. Always. The 6mg Wise tasteless snus is often the only snus that seems right — good nicotine delivery without becoming the dominant taste. I like the Wise Citrus/Menthol also.
Jamie, I liked the Camel Spice and Frost, but they’re not yet sold in my area. The Marlboro snus was very weak, but extremely sweet in use. I don’t like the snus from P. Lorillard. Haven’t yet tried the Tourney and Grand Prix snus from Vector. And Philip Morris has a new one just out in Sweden, called 1847. It will be on my next order. All U.S. Big Tobacco companies view snus as a very important part of their future.
P.S. Jamie: You might run across some of my posts on the snuson site. I’ve been there a long time. But I’m not one of those guys who thinks a person needs to tuck tobacco under their upper lip that will sprout hair on their shoulders. There’s lot of posturing on that site. Big Man talk! That doesn’t help the cause of quitting smoking. Use what you enjoy.|||This sounds really interesting… I’m going to put in an order from some snus today. You don’t spit when you use them, right?
It seems like it would be a good back up for e-cigarettes.
I tried something called a "flavor pack" one time. I was cinnamon flavored. Don’t remember the brand but I know it was a major one like Skoal. The same thing as dry snus probably. Bought it at a Circle-K or some other gas station. I haven’t been able to find them since. Liked them a lot though.
I did buy a pack of Oliver Twist the other day.. I got a can of Sunberry (About $5 US), and a variety pack with 6 flavors, 2 bits of each flavor. ($0.50 US). I like them. All the flavors are good.. I want to try the Stonewalls too. I’m going to check Walgreens for them today.
Thanks Bob for introducing me to these things… I really want to stop smoking cigarettes and I think it will help a lot.
This is going to sound silly but I also bought some of those plastic cigarette filters that cut down tar and nicotine. I figured it would help break my routine a bit and get me used to plastic and lighter smoke in anticipation of my e-cigar arriving. |||Okay I put in an order at http://www.buysnus.com.
Mocca Anis Mini Portion 1 pack
Offroad Limited - Coffee Vanilla Portion 1 pack
Taboca Snus 1 pack
Vertigo Bahama Velvet Mini 1 pack
I didn’t know what to get so I got what sounded tasty…
Under $13 for the order…
I’ll let you know what I think of them.|||Please do. That’s a pretty fine order. I’m a fan of Offroad Coffee/Vanilla and Vertigo Bahama Velvet. Just finished (yesterday) a first tin of Tobaca and can’t say I liked it — but it’s very powerful. I haven’t tried that Mocca, but just finished a tin of Mocca Tobacco (super strong nicotine hit) and I like Mocca Pomegranate on a regular basis.
The tobacco pouches you mentioned were SkoalDry Cinnamon, one of my favorites. I order a roll of five online. Tastes like chewing gum, eh?
And Stonewalls (java or wintergreen) are regulars in my rotation — first thing in the morning, after each meal. These all add variety to the quitting effort. And you won’t go crazy when your e-cig dies on you and you’re waiting for replacement parts.
Oh .. no, you don’t spit. There’s no need to. Just tuck the little pouch between cheek and gum and go about your business. I do NOT use my upper lip, as hard-core snusers of loose tobacco do. And I don’t do loose. Nasty stuff, as far as I’m concerned.
Also keep in mind that if you don’t immediately take to a flavor, put the tin in the refrigerator for a few days, use another brand, and then return. It’s often better the next time around.||| |||Can’t say they taste like root beer (I, too, like that soda, along with Cream Soda). The Wintergreen is minty; the java does a fair coffee imitation. They are quite sweet, unlike the traditional Swedish snus, which are salty and bitter.Ah so wintergreen refers to a cool freshness as opposed to the actual wintergreen plant! Still sound nice tho, might give them a try…er if I can get my girlfriend to let me (I know… whipped ) cos she wants me completely off nicotine by next year! But I can’t see it happenin that soon! Thanks TBYes. That’s required U.S. government BS. It’s tobacco. It causes cancer. And the government warning was indeed for chewing tobacco, but no one had any idea what a snus was! So it got the same warning as dip. Believe me, they are not even close to the same or similar health hazards — to any part of your body.
Read some studies of Swedish snus if your mind is troubled in any way.Hey guys/gals , new person here to both e-cigs and snus. Anyone want to sell me a can of snus (in the US) so I can give it a try before i decide to order 5 cans and not like it? I’ll gladly pay for shipping. Please PM me, thanksTags: cigar, E-Cigarette, E-Pipe, flavor, flavors, media, nicotine, Other Alternatives to Smoking, snus
The heatbar is the latest product from Philip Morris - It is designed to vaporise the tobacco rather than burn it. The user inserts on of PM’s specially designed cigarettes and puffs - with the cigarette still in the device!
Is this a crazy and pointless invention?
- No bar owner in a smoking-prohibited area is going to allow his customers to smoke these, since they actually contain tobacco.
- It probably wouldn’t be legal anyway
- No smoker is going to want to carry that thing around with them. It’s got to be 2, 3 times the size of your average cellphone!
- It’s health benefits seem good on paper, but I have read that the thing actually emits more carbon monoxide than normal cigarettes.
However, this is made by Philip Morris, one of the giants of the tobacco industry, nay any industry, so it will have huge marketing clout behind it.
Why on earth didn’t PM think of inventing the e-cigarette? Or would that have been an admission of sorts that their main product had, er, inherent problems.|||Although this new product is clearly clumsy and too big, it is a move in the right direction. I believe that if the big tobacco companies are able to fine tune reduced risk nicotine use they are in a good position to market a product effectively and also understand exactly what flavours and smoking experiences really appeal to their customers. I am willing to bet that they are closely examining e-cigs to see how they can develop their own variation on a theme.|||Hmmmm! Having just read all the blurb, the heatbar may still not be legal indoors as it only cuts second hand smoke by 90%. Back too the drawing board for PM.|||Well, as Tropical Bob has said before, it will either be the tobacco giants or the pharmas that make the push against the legality of the ecigarette.
But I wonder, if PM is developing it’s own alternatives, might that not dissuade them against pursuing e-ciggies, for fear that their own technologies are banned? I’m sure that all the tobacco companies have novel devices somewhere on the drawing board, ready to pile in if they feel too much of the market is being taken by these e-cigarette upstarts!|||Truly, Big Tobacco in the United States doesn’t know where to turn. Its profits now must come from food divisions and turning developing nations into new smoking sources. Some tobacco companies, however, are test marketing snus with traditional brand names like Camel, Lucky Strike and Marlboro. Then we have this funky Heatbar from PM! Suggestion: Make the end capable of holding a toothbrush and it might sell.
The information that follows was found in days of researching the chances of e-devices being allowed for sale in the US. I think it highly unlikely they will be. Neither Big Tobacco NOR Big Pharmaceutical can profit from a device made in China that vaporizes nicotine liquid.
I found how the nicotine inhaler made it to market. Remember that it went through the same rigorous procedure given all nicotine-replacement products. This is time and money intensive. But to the FDA, these are drug delivery devices — and they better meet all FDA standards.
On May 5, 1997, the FDA approved the nicotine inhaler, writing "This nicotine replacement product … delivers its nicotine dose through a cartridge that the person inhales from. The smoker inhales through the mouthpiece and the inhaled air carries nicotine that is absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth."
An article at the time in the New York Times noted, "The product, the Nicotrol Inhaler, was developed by Pharmacia & Upjohn Inc. but is marketed by the McNeil Consumer Products Company, a unit of Johnson & Johnson." Ah yes, these are the folks funding the anti-tobacco, anti-smoking movement in America (cigarettes, cigars and pipes weren’t enough for these fanatics; they’re fuming over smokeless tobacco now).
Another article described the inhaler: "The Nicotrol inhaler is a plastic mouthpiece with a nicotine “plug.” It allows smokers to inhale vaporized nicotine and satisfy their urge for an oral “smoke” while giving them a total of only about one-third of the nicotine in a cigarette. In addition, while it takes smokers about 10 puffs of a cigarette to inhale 1 mg of nicotine, the inhaler requires between 70 and 80 puffs, the company said."
This is the reason the things fail. Who wants to pay $10 a day and still crave a cigarette? Low nicotine is the reason inhalers are only about 3 percent of the nicotine-replacement products sold. But note the following and think of our beloved e-cigs and e-cigars:
"The company overcame FDA and panel member concerns that the device looked too much like a cigarette. Panel members said they were convinced by the inhaler’s benefits though they originally found the similarities “disturbing.” Pharmacia & Upjohn officials insisted the device is more than a smokeless, tar-less cigarette. The nicotine is absorbed through the mouth and not into the lungs, and the device helps lower nicotine levels and encourages smokers to quit."
Think on the above and tell me the e-smoking products have a snowball’s chance in hell of not being banned as soon as the FDA takes notice of them.|||This ridiculous looking product must be something PM developed to satisfy whatever powers that be that they are indeed looking for a safe-smoking alternative (perhaps it helps them thwart government regulation or could help them in a law suit). They know damn well no one would be caught dead using this thing, you’d really look like a pathetic addict to be sucking on this device. They possibly even intentionally designed it so that no one would want to use it because if people did they might end up cutting back on their habit.
These are the same people that when forced to make anti-smoking ads came up with "Tobacco is Wacko, If You’re a Kid". This product has the same deceptive self-serving purpose.||| ||| ||| |||The FDA has been completely quiet on this. The Supreme Court ruled years ago that the FDA could not regulate tobacco (a move Congress is at this very moment about to overturn), but you can expect major noises once any politician focuses on e-smoking. It is NOT a cigarette by legal definition, therefore it is … a nicotine delivery device. You want hassle? Try to introduce a non-medical nicotine delivery device into the American marketplace.
Alcohol/Tobacco would not be interested; our e-cig contains no tobacco. It will be an FDA and FTC decision. If it’s for quitting smoking, enter the FTC with demands for proof of effectiveness. If it’s FDA, then the product cannot contain any substance that is addictive or might harm health.
E-smoking has not been approved; it’s been ignored so far. Both Premier and Eclipse caught major flak from health whackos who claimed those were not cigarettes. If you remember, the first Premier had an aluminum tube to hold the tobacco, and a lump of charcoal in the tip to "vaporize" the tobacco contents. That was a touchy design from a legal standpoint. By the time Premier morphed into Eclipse, it had cigarette paper tubes. It WAS a cigarette with tobacco contents. Unfortunately, the vapor left a charcoal aftertaste.
Understand that our e-products are not cigarettes or cigars. By definition, cigarettes are tobacco products. That’s why they have longstanding protection. Big Tobacco is powerful. If the FDA decides these are nicotine delivery devices, they will require the clinical trials as with all NRT products — years of expensive study only Big Pharmaceutical can afford. Ruyan has studies underway by a New Zealand researcher, in an attempt to have something to show FDA should the worst occur. But those studies won’t be complete until the end of this year. In the meantime, I suggest doing what I’ve been doing — hoarding the hell out of E-Liquid, which I expect before long will be declared an addictive, illegal substance whose import and sale is banned in this country.
This fight hasn’t even rung the first bell.
And Big Tobacco is betting on snus, a tobacco product, to be the winner for smokers wanting to quit. That why you now have Lucky Strike, Camel, Marlboro, Skoal Dry, Tourney and Triumph on American tobacco stores’ shelves. All the Big Guys now have a snus to call their own.
You tell me: Will either Big Tobacco of Big Pharmaceutical welcome e-smoking? Will government welcome the loss of tobacco tax revenue? Will anti-tobacco forces throw open their arms to welcome a device that produces what looks like smoke from people who were or are smokers? I think the answers are obvious and troublesome for those of us who believe in the health benefits of a cleaner way to satisfy nicotine addiction.Tags: cigar, devices, E-Cigarette, e-liquid, medical, nicotine, Other Alternatives to Smoking, RUYAN, snus
I just read an article about this product called Blue Whale Smokeless. It is apparently tobacco free, but contains nicotine. It is made with a blend of teas and nicotine extract. Here is an article about the stuff
A Whale of an Idea Launched in Texas — Lone Star State Chosen as Launch Market for Blue Whale, a Safer Alternative to Smokeless Tobacco with a Big, Bold Taste, and All the Kick of Premium Smokeless Tobacco | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET
anyone ever heard of or used this stuff? I couldn’t find any place on the net that sold it.|||i just tried to go on http://www.bluewhalesmokeless.com/ and it didn’t work ….
hmmmm….|||If any of us know, it be TB…|||This might be tied up in legal battles. Lots of scam stuff going on with an investor in both Blue Whale and Nicogel (which turns out to have so little nicotine that a person would have to take a bath in it to get a hit). But one story on Blue Whale had this:
"Although Blue Whale does contain nicotine, Whalen said the FDA has told him the agency would not regulate it because it is neither a food nor a drug. However, the FDA has previously pulled other products containing nicotine from the market, such as lip balm, water and lollipops.
"Representatives from the FDA refused to discuss Blue Whale specifically, releasing a statement that read, "It’s true that the FDA regulates nicotine containing products (drugs) that purport to aid in smoking cessation or are making some kind of medical claim, but we don’t regulate all products that contain nicotine (such as cigarettes and tobacco chew). This doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t take a closer look at (Blue Whale) and its labeling and how it’s marketing itself in order to determine if it falls under the FDAs regulatory authority and it isn’t in violation of any FDA regulations."
That would seem to apply to what we use. Too many e-cig makers are saying this helps quit smoking. That phrase could get our practice in deep trouble. No studies! Empty claim.
The only thing I read that might depress you from Blue Whale is that it doesn’t contain much nicotine (nothing says exactly how much). Using it would be for a dipper like e-smoking a low or no nicotine cartridge in hopes tobacco cravings are curbed.|||Found this interesting quote, too:
"Another new product, called Blue Whale, is a mix of black tea and nicotine extract. Ironically, because Blue Whale is not a tobacco product it is subject to FDA oversight and could be banned."|||well if it’s super low in nic then it definitely wouldn’t be for me right now, maybe in the furture when I have been off cigs for long enough that my new rituals are solidly established. Right now I’m actualy looking at ordering some general sterk or nick and jonny strong cause the regular snus just isn’t giving me the kick that cigs did. It’s fine most of the day, but I’d really like something stronger for first thing in the morning as well as late evening before bed. Definitly don’t need the equivalent of an ultralight right now, that may drive me back to smoking.|||Jason, you and I share the same curiosities, don’t we? I keep researching this. Interesting patents. The inventor not only patented nicotine use in these, but also cotinine, a nicotine byproduct made in our bodies. Wonder if cotinine could be used for e-smoking? And note that glycerine, not propylene glycol, is the moisturing agent. Here are some quotes:
"In one embodiment the following amounts of chemicals are added per 34 grams of leaf (or other tobacco substitute) product: (1) 0.1 to 1 g of nicotine polacrilex, or other forms of ingestible nicotine; (2) 0.1 to 1 g of sodium bicarbonate, sodium carbonate, calcium carbonate or ammonium bicarbonate; and (3) 0.5 to 2 grams of glycerin.
"In another embodiment cotinine, is used as the nicotine replacement instead of nicotine polacrilex as described above. Cotinine is a chemical derivative of nicotine which results after the human body has broken down nicotine. It is also know in the art to produce cotinine in the laboratory. The following amounts of chemicals are added per 34 grams of leaf (or other tobacco substitute) product: (1) 0.01 to 1 g of cotinine, or other forms of ingestible nicotine; (2) 0.1 to 1 g of sodium bicarbonate, sodium carbonate, calcium carbonate or ammonium bicarbonate; and (3) 0.5 to 2 grams of glycerin."
So I looked up the cost of buying pure cotinine (not that I’d experiment without lots of knowledge of what it might do!). Anyhow, it’s $121 for 250 grams from a lab supplier. If 1 gram is used in the Blue Whale tin, then the cost is 50 cents!
Sure begs a question of whether cotinine could replace nicotine in our liquids. Would it deliver a kick? A better, faster kick? I’ll keep reading …|||very interesting TB, I’ll be interested to hear what you find out||| |||Jason: The two strongest snus are Skruf Stark and Nick & Johnny regular portions. They are not often recommended to new snusers, because they’re so strong in both taste and kick. The kick you should like; the taste you might hate. I’ve used N&J many times. The biggest kick, however, comes from Wise Wine & Chef 6mg snus. There’s just something about this that defies logic. You put it in place and nothing seems to happen. Times passes. Nothing happens. Then, precisely at 10 minutes later, your head spins!
It takes nicotine from a cigarette about 7 seconds to reach your brain. It takes Wise 10 minutes, but when it gets there, it lets you know about its arrival! I ordered 2 more tins of it last night. It’s the only "tasteless" snus and can be used while drinking the finest wines, etc. Goes great with coffee, in my case.
Do not double up any of these, BTW. Just don’t. And be very careful if using, say, a Wise 6mg and e-smoking at the same time. A sneak OD attack can occur.thanx TB. My 24 can sample pack from swedish-snus.com contains one can of skruf stark and one can of nick and johnny strong portion so I now am very excited about that order (should be in soe time next week). I’ve seen the Wise wine and chef, I’ll have to order some of that on my next order. Definitly looking for something that I can actualy feel. I find that the snus that I have used to date;
genderal original portion
general whitergreen portion
catch dry peppermint
vertigo bahama velvet
offroad coffee vanilla
seems to keep me from becoming irritated or noticing a lack of nicotine, but I never feel the nicotine enter my body like I did with cigarette smoking. I do miss that morning cigarette feeling. Hope that the stronger snus will give that back to me at least a little. I don’t mind waiting 10 minutes for the kick, as long as it comes
On a somewhat different note, I just got my smoky mountain sample pack in the mail. Smokey mountain loose cherry tastes very good, but thier artic mint portions which it says are made by XQ, don’t taste very good. I’m going to get a tea bag making kit and try to play around with making my own snus blend portions as well as non-tobacco pouches.Tags: cigar, glycerin, glyco, medical, nicotine, nicotine cartridge, Other Alternatives to Smoking, propylene, snus, supplier