RUYAN China Official US$49.80 free shipping
is it consider illegal? to order cartridges i
since the cartridges contain nicotine .?
since every countries got tax on tobacco .|||you just answered you own question 
Nicotine is NOT tobacco. There is a tax on Tobacco NOT nicotine.
There are no huge taxes on NRT’s (nicotine replacement therapies) …||| |||The more questions you ask - the more answers you find. So ask away.|||yup, let’s get ‘em all out there - increase the hive knowledge…||| |||
Tags: Law & the E-Cigarette, nicotineRelated posts
Fda approval!
It appears that GreenCig has become the first electronic cigarette to obtain certification from the U.S. Food & Drug Administration.
Its cigarette is officially a "nasal inhaler" by FDA definitions. To be one, the device must deliver a drug through nose, mouth or throat. Certainly an e-cigarette takes that route to deliver its nicotine.
GreenCig makes disposable and non-disposable cigarettes and is readying a disposable cigar for sale in the U.S. The company, GreenWorld, is American invested but manufactures in China.
This certification is astounding news and means that, unless the e-cigarette is challenged by a Congressman, it likely will be legal to sell these devices in this country without hearings, demands for clinical trials and proof of efficacy.
You can read the brief certification statement and follow links to definitions at FDA > CDRH > Registration & Listing Database Search
See further thoughts on this on page two of this thread. GreenCig has registered, not been given any kind of FDA approval. Go deep into that FDA date listing and you’ll see that no approvals have been given and GreenCig claims exemption from approvals. We shall see.|||Good job, Bob! 
|||wow!THAT came out of the blue…well done greencig,and well done Bob!|||Party! Time!|||TIME TO PAAARRRTTAAAAYYY !!!! Thanks for posting TB, this is great news!|||and still not one review of their products. they appear to be building a solid base before launching.||| |||I may be the only skeptic here - but I don’t think it is going to be that easy. Lets hope I am wrong…||| |||Today people have seemed to be quite unsure regarding green cig and who they are but I can reassure people that they are all kosher and legit.
As I have personally been having business telephone conversations with them in the last few days.
Their aim is to try and bring green cig into the UK but mainly in the mainstream of things rather than Internet but there will be a Internet site.
It will be aimed more at the retail market. Shops/ stores/ businesses etc.
More like as you would see the top brands websites where you only see janty. N joy. Sedansa etc only for sale on their own sites not mixed up with suppliers selling all sorts . Whether that will change I don’t know. As I think they want to have a more prestige look.
They are a US invested company with a manufacturing plant in China.
So this is all good for us as for spreading the word into the mainstream. I feel this must go this way as it is at present to Internet-based which that is all right but it needs to get out there for people to accept and get used to because at the moment it’s only people like ourselves that showing a man on the street what we have.
Tags: cigar, devices, E-Cigarette, Electronic Cigarette, janty, Law & the E-Cigarette, manufacture, nicotine, review, supplierRelated posts
World Health Organization warns that E-cigs are NOT a safe alternative
Just got this from a family member, whom of course, is now spouting it like the bible. Can anyone here help me out to validate otherwise?
ARGGH… I can’t post the URL!!!|||I have to post 10 more times in order post a URL. Can I mail the URL to someone and they post?|||Hi Mentalfloss, welcome to the forum.
We have four threads about this -
New report who
OMS went to war war against cigarettes electronics
UN says ELECTRONIC CIGARETTE’ NOT A SAFE OR PROVEN QUITTING METHOD FOR SMOKERS
Even Engadget website got news on e cig
Apparently some suppliers say that WHO endorses esmoking and WHO have issued a statement saying that they do not and there is no proof that esmoking is safe. Etc.|||Unless there have been rapid developments
I don’t think they can fully substansiate that claim yet.
There may be some health issues but I can’t see e-cigs being as bad for one’s health as regular cigs. ‘SAFER’ might be the operative word because 2 or 3 potentially harmful chemicals have got to win the day over the 4000 with a regular cig?|||I think the important thing to note is the difference between ’safe’ and ’safer’.
We have no clinical trials or long term toxicology reports which prove either.|||And THAT is the point. Thanks Kate.
Important note that Dr. Jim Loi has posted some thoughts in this topic under Law and the E-Cigarette (where all these threads should have been posted).||| |||"… brute intimidation and overpowering financial bullying."
I’m afraid that isn’t so unusual in the world Naz, it could well come to that.
Apart from our other ingredients, nicotine is known to be toxic. To bring a new product to the market that has known toxic effects is very, very difficult to justify. It doesn’t matter how favourably it compares to cigarettes, it is something different and is not covered by the same laws. The rules are different, you cannot compare with cigarettes, you must either compare with the likes of snuff and snus or pharmacological nicotine replacement therapies.
The pharmacological route is long and expensive with many tests and reports required. The non-pharmacological route is not approved for smoking cessation or health purposes at all. We can’t have it all ways, it’s going to go the way of one or the other as far as I can see. Either way we will need evidence about safety before we are allowed approval.|||Thanks Kate. I got a little too excited there.
To me this just comes off as a means for WHO to cover their butts. Thankfully, they acknowledge that if testing shows the product to be safe they will go ahead and endorse the product.
Ironically enough, the Yahoo article I read left out a tidbit that you can find at WHO’s official website:
Tags: cigar, E-Cigarette, Electronic Cigarette, Law & the E-Cigarette, nicotine, snus, supplierRelated posts
Banned in Iceland?
Customs stopped my order from Njoy and the custom officer told me he thinks e-cigarettes are banned in Iceland! I will get a full report after the weekend. Has anyone else had this problem? I think it is very strange to ban e-cigs but allow regular tobacco and nicotine quitting products!
Shogn|||It’s not strange when you have history on your side. Many things that would be illegal today are "grandfathered" into legality. That includes cigarettes. Do you think any government would approve cigarettes if an inventor submitted them today for approval? The e-products, however, are nicotine delivery devices. New. I expect mixed reactions by governments on whether to allow their sale. They are not clearly legal; nor clearly illegal. Each government will decide as it confronts them.
Virtually all legal quit-smoking items in the United States, where I live, are products of Big Pharmaceutical. Millions have been spent on development and testing. Billions stand to be made. E-smoking has had none of those tests, no approval.|||That’s where the good doctor comes in.|||Empirical evidence won’t hold up.
If a government agency decides these are "nicotine delivery devices," the government will regulate them as medical products, requiring the same years of study and expenditure of millions of dollars that it took to get patches, gum, lozenges and inhalers on the market.
E-smoking won’t happen if that’s the way the flipped coin lands.
Health is not the concern. We all keep arguing they’re safer. But there are no studies to prove they’re safer than FDA-approved NRT products. In fact, there are no long-term studies proving they’re safe at all. We certainly hope so, but hope isn’t proof. No one has ever inhaled propylene glycol vapors multiple times each day for years. That’s what we’re doing, assuming it’s safer than inhaling cigarette smoke. While that probably is true, absolute knowledge of safety will be elusive for some time to come. The governments of many countries might ere on the side of "don’t sell it before its safety is proven."
If that happens, we’re looking at these products being banned.|||Shogun, I think you added the tags here? I saw banned in the tag cloud, however I chose to use bans instead because:
- we have threads on past, current, and future potential smoking/tobacco/ecig bans
- the tag banned sounded like a forum user had been banned.
Tags: bans, cigar, devices, E-Cigarette, glyco, Law & the E-Cigarette, medical, nicotine, propyleneRelated posts
Italy to open up to e-smoking?
A post made elsewhere by Ludo (Janty) had my ears perking up:
"Italy (=Jantyshop about to open there) is waiting for green light from government: they are ahead of european legislation there and will be allowing 6mg to be sold freely"
So… perhaps not 谩ll doom-and-gloom in the world of e-smoking after all then; this is one ray of sunlight like we have been wanting to see 
|||We really need ONE country to say this is a good thing. Just one to get e-smoking started. I hope Italy is the one. It might spur others.
But 6mg max? Oh my. Might as well smoke Bickford flavors.|||Agree: one is what we need. For starters. I hope myself it will be Malaysia first, setting the norm, because we know that our own Jim, who knows what we need, is behind it then
Still: Italy alongside wouldn’t be bad… also because it is in the group of 24 countries, none of the others having legislation on this, so with a good chance of having them follow the one that does… and guess th茅n we will need Jim’s influence through Malaysia or who knows straight on even, to get them to take the next step and change it to what we need to let it really work as needed…
Getting the devices in without trouble is one big step that will allready be taken then though, which will win a lot of time, so less for Jim to do after that (Poor Jim, being sent around the whole world allready )
And when a whole group of countries lets it in… small chance US will be able to keep it out th茅n, I would think. |||You read what happened to Dr. Loi, right? The government essentially turned against him. The One Good Man is on his own.|||I think I have some idea of what is happening to Dr. Loi. What a darn hard time he is having; and just how much courage he is needing… and showing. Courage 谩nd hope.
Hope is a strong motor TB: and accompanied by courage and resourcefulness it can get people a long way. Lets see, and show some faith in… and/or hope for… what could happen. In Italy; in KL. .|||Hi Katink, Can you post the URL of this piece of information please? I’d like to read the full story, if Italy is going to be the first country making e-cigarettes legal.
Also is this being covered in any Italian news (hopefully there’s an english version…)? Thanks heaps.
|||We will get permission for sales in 20 days… the test results for the cartridges was ok, we’ll have all certificates needed for Italy and therefore for Europe. Coz that’s how it works, once a European member state gives the green light, the rest will follow :-)||| |||Ruyan, I view your company as the only one in the world with the finances and clout to get e-smoking accepted by governments. You probably stand alone with tests from Dr. Murray Laugesen to show purity of liquid. No other company assures us with lab tests that our practice is "safe."
But the bottom line is that you are selling a drug delivery device that uses a poisonous liquid to sustain addicts. That’s a tough sales pitch, and a slow ball pitch of "it’s healthier than cigarettes" won’t get far. I wish you all the luck in the world in making what you said above come true.
I’m aboard, even if I have to buy a Janty. (And surely no one expects blanket approval of e-smoking devices and liquid; approvals will be model by model, company by company). Italy will approve only Ruyan products, if it approves anything at all.|||
Tags: bickford, cigar, devices, E-Cigarette, flavor, flavors, janty, Law & the E-Cigarette, RUYANRelated posts
PG questioned in Canada
http://www.am1150.ca:80/node/765347|||I guess PG will be our Archilles Heel…..as I am guessing right from the start, the fears will be concentrated on PG instead of Nicotine…sigh…alternatives within an alternative….a wolf in a sheep clothing, I guess a new battleplan will be drawn again…|||there was another htread that talked abotu lung medication being given through pg inhalation and apparently that is medically approved|||We do pretty well know nicotine’s dangers — and benefits. We know nothing about inhaling PG 300 times a day. The fact that PG is used for some inhalation applications doesn’t mean it’s safe to inhale it all day, every day, as a transporter for nicotine. That will surely come under regulatory fire.|||Well the medical inhalation for I beleive lung problem patients would be an all day deal I beleive- Someone posted the info here not too long ago|||I think it’ll be in the grade of the PG that the difference is. Fog machine PG isn’t the same grade. At least that’s my understanding.||| |||Damn governments. If they cant control it, ban it 
There is nothing wrong with PG !!.
The one good thing, if they try to ban it for E-cigs, they would have to ban ALL fog machines as well. I cant see that happening.
IF they want to put a stipulation of it haveing to be Food grade, I might say ok to that, but it is "suppost" to be anyway.||| |||
Tags: Law & the E-Cigarette, medical, nicotineRelated posts
Excellent BBC report
Finally, fair and balanced and accurate. And starring our very own ….
BBC NEWS | Health | Fears over electronic cigarettes
Also:
http://news.bbc.co.uk:80/newsbeat/hi/health/newsid_7658000/7658566.stm|||nice one jason watched it live this morning !|||BBC NEWS | Video and Audio | Electronic cigarettes sales rise
I couldn’t get your link to work TropicalBob, maybe cos I’m behind a corporate firewall? But I got the link above to work. It’s the same news broadcast featuring our very own PillBox38 
Nice.|||Thanks for posting those links TBob.
I thought those reports were very well balanced, the video voiceover even said ‘allegedly healthier’ about esmoking.
Good old BBC (I feel very proud of the BBC at times, I think we’re lucky in the UK to have such a quality broadcaster).
There was only one thing amiss as far as I could tell and that was in the first article where it said:
"But Jason Cropper, managing director of the Electronic Cigarette Company, said: "They are certainly healthier than smoking cigarettes.
"Tests have been done on mice and in the lab and they have shown they are not harmful." "
Which tests were those Jason? Are you referring to the one, decades old propylene glycol test that TBob found?
Good job though, you’re a good representative for us. You’ve made great strides in bringing a better, safer product to us and you came across very well in the report. 
|||Yes good video clip but I’m not too sure about the interviews - that dried up old stick from ASH - they don’t want anybody having fun.
I’d also like to know if any of the medics have any links with Glaxo or Pfizer (Nicorette or Champix anyone? :-))|||
OH NOT BETTER THAN BOADCAST THIS NEWS IN SG ORELSE MY PARENTS WILL KNOW I AM STILL SMOKING
BECOS I BLUFF THEM IS A GAGET PEN PRODUCE SMOKE 
||| |||the beeb is the best in the world…|||Thanks TB and cyberdude for posting, nice to see something a little more balanced for once.|||You are lucky to have the BBC. As a journalist, I’ve long admired them. In America, we have the outstanding NPR. Like the BBC, it sets broadcast standards.
Don’t be a cheerleader. Don’t be a doomsayer. Search out truth. Balance views. Report. That’s what the BBC does so well.
Tags: cigar, Electronic Cigarette, glyco, Law & the E-Cigarette, propylene, videoRelated posts
Speak up or shut up?
A friend of mine is a press officer for the Royal College of General Practitioners and was very interested in all the e-smoking paraphernalia I carry about. We talked at length about it. My friend now seems professionally interested in the device and is considering drawing up a document for distribution to UK GPs and possible (probable) release to the press.
I’m posting this because I’d like everybody’s opinion. Do you think it is a good idea at this stage for these devices to be brought to the attention of medical professionals (or any wider audience at all), or would it be better to continue flying under the radar, as some of our members feel?
If I were to speak at length, all I could really do is refer my friend to Dr Laugesen’s report to the WHO, as my personal impressions of e-smoking are worthless for something like this.
I’m pretty much frozen in place at the moment (I’m not going to do anything until I’ve seen Doctor Laugesen’s report, or the excerpts from it that Bob is permitted to update us with).
So, what do you think?
Emp|||Emp, I think it’s a great idea. I know I feel better since I have not smoked regular cigarettes. Don’t know yet though if inhaling the vapor causes any damage. Also, these e-cig devices and their pieces and parts need to last longer or perhaps be disposable. But press releases at this time might just be the thing we need. I can understand the dilema though; will they take them off the market? I’m addicted to my e-cigs now and I don’t want to go back!|||This will not remain secret for much longer, Emp. With you guiding him, he should go for it. Educate the educators — the doctors — so they have knowledge to help addicted smokers. As for the public, some press has already shown interest — but e-smoking has little news value until a disaster happens. Then it will be on every front page.
Just let one child playing "afternoon tea" drink one thimble of e-liquid, and die, and e-smoking will get its publicity.
So better the public has a good story by a good scribe than ignorant ads from greedy resellers making unsubstantiated claims in back alleys of the Web. But stick with him, Emp; read his work; point him in the direction of what we know, what we fear, what we hope. Most articles so far have been dreadful. See that his isn’t.|||Harsh comments TB about resellers. Although these devices might not cost the chinese much by the time weve paid are imports duties, transfer fees, commisions etc we dont all make a killing. As for publicity dont they say all publicity is good publicity. I think the sooner a few professionals get to hear about this the sooner proper tests will be carried out. I for one would rather risk my money on a venture that is regualted. At least I was in near the beggining and I hope that will give me an advantage from when the countless others start reselling.|||Paxes, the good guys will know who they are. The bad ones don’t care. We all visit various Web sites. We read crap claims. We see for ourselves. Be a truthful and supportive reseller, and good wishes to you.|||I hope nobody minds me updating this for a while because I want to keep it near the top for more replies. I’m quite hopeful about this - the RCGP is a pretty level-headed and useful organisation, not to mention authoritative because they represent the family docs at the sharp end here in the UK.
My PO friend is an ex-smoker (but not self-righteous about it) and what caught her attention is she has seen me trying and failing to give up smoking for years and never thought I would be able to do it. The killer point is I gave up hot cigarettes with no great effort or murderous withdrawal. I told her it’s not uncommon in my experience of talking with other users of the devices.
I think GPs as a whole would be behind this, if they get the information from a source they’re used to (and trust). It’s gotta be an old story with them that longterm users just aren’t going to stop smoking and I’m sure they have no more faith in the available cessation products than we have (although I suppose they go on reccomending them to try and cut the damage from burning tobacco). I can’t think of a single other recommendation to their older (smoking) patients that would be of even equal benefit.
I know we have lots of serious concerns about PG inhalation, but the harm reduction argument must surely carry weight here, although we’re obviously a long way from realising the necessary clinical data to allow docs to speak out in favour. It would mean a lot to me if this went towards promoting further study.
Emp|||Just as long as they don’t stop letting the device save lives while they take their years-long time to study if it might not harm a big toe or little finger doing so… and as long as they keep their eyes wide open for WHY it is succesfull (as in: not regulated into infinity and uselessness… and cheap enough to not lock out those groups needing it most… and ‘colourful’ and ‘tasteful’ enough to attract the users even bef贸re they fall ill to smoking tobacco, so heck, in time even)… |||I think you know my thoughts on this already……Go for it! Educate the educators as TB says.|||Go for it emp..you get the right attention and then some….in my earlier post, I do urge people to show and demo it to their doctors..it is the only choice and if possible to an existing smoking medical practioner…that will help a lot..so please help him out as much as possible…I don’t mind sharing my data if any medical doctors ask for it…|||My advice mate, is to go for it as well…. I have been talking up the virtues of our little devices to anyone who will listen around my little patch of the medical researchers… and framing it as an alternative to the nasty old stuff rings true to their ears as well. I am this close to having a renowned pulmonologist ready to take a critical look at the phenomenon.
At this point we can still (somewhat) control the message… if a scenario like Bob suggests occurs…. forget about it. We go from proactive to reactive in .05 senconds…
Tags: burning, cigar, devices, e-liquid, Law & the E-Cigarette, medicalRelated posts
Is electronic cigarette smoking legal in public places UK?
England and Wales
The legislation that prohibits smoking in public places in England and Wales is contained within Chapter 1 of the Health Act 2006.
The act of smoking is defined as: |||Thank you for your email of the 19th August about electronic cigarettes and smoking in public places.
The smoke-free legislation requires all enclosed or substantially enclosed work places and public places to be smoke-free. Under the legislation, ’smoking’ includes being in possession of anything lit that contains tobacco.
Electronic cigarettes appear to be borderline products when considering compliance with the smoke-free law. They heat nicotine inserts using a microchip charging device, and therefore technically they are not ‘lit’. However, most of these products seem to contain traces of tobacco and they emit a vapour that is designed to appear to be smoke. It is the Department’s/ our understanding that the vapour is created at a high temperature, similar to that at which some substances burn. The Department has identified at least a dozen different brands of electronic cigarettes. All are different in composition and emissions.
The Department is currently obtaining information on ingredients and emissions of e-cigarettes from manufacturers and importers. Until the Department has an understanding of whether the products are lit and whether the product or the vapour contains tobacco, it is unfortunately not in a position to advise on whether electronic cigarettes comply with the Department’s smoke-free legislation. No such products have been approved for sale in the UK. The Department cannot say that such products could be used in areas which are smoke-free under the law.
I hope this email clarifies the Department of Health聮s current position on this matter.
Yours sincerely,
Ronald Le Bruin
Department of Health|||Hi Brenda, and welcome to the forum.
Is this a response to a question YOU have asked? Can we see the original e-mail please?
It seems to me that Dept of Health would prefer to outlaw e-smoking, but have no reason to do so. They’re working frantically to find a way to ban e-cigs, but don’t really know how (yet).
Also, it is claimed that "no such products have been approved for sale in the UK". Do these products even require approval? If they haven’t been approved, how come we have UK sellers who seem to be selling e-cigs without any problems?|||Thats good to know, all of that. But even after reading what exactly smoking ban refers to i do believe that e cigs will be banned. There’s no amount of fun that couldnt be banned by this goverment (or any goverment rly…). Also, i can see it in my minds eye, anti smoking lobby, how them will get red hot pis*ed when they’ll start to notice that.
(now there is a part of my post that i had to cut out because its not allright to make fun of them poor anti smoke people and saying that if they only could get laid they might find something more interesting to do, besides i dont know, maybe its not allowed on this forum and i could get banned, and i dont want that; so no rants here, even tho they rightly deserve it). 
|||Dawn Primarolo
Please could you advise me if the electronic cigarette can be used in public places.
I would appreciate a straight yes/no answer.
As the definition of smoking is:
Part 1 of the Act means to smoke tobacco or any other substance or mixture which can be smoked. This subsection further clarifies that a person is to be taken as smoking if the person holds or is otherwise in possession or control of lit tobacco or any other lit substance or mixture which can be smoked.
As the electronic is designed as a smoking cessation device and is not ‘lit’ nor contain tobacco, what is the ‘LAW’ on this device that uses the same principal as an asthma pump and delivers vapour to the user.
Thank you|||Thanks!
That was quite a yes/no answer you got in return
It seems clear to me that the official position is "we would like to say no, but we can’t".||| |||It is a bit like that bob your right..
smokey, i know you posted this ages ago, but can you remember if there was a seperate ruling for NI at all?|||In the Netherlands, with a government certainly also looking for ways to either ban e-cigs or to get more then their share of money out of them… they have been forced to admit, the e-cigarettes do not fall under the anti-smoking laws; so they are allowed to be used in all places where smoking is prohibited. Of course, their next sentence hurriedly added is: ‘but of course all premise-owners and owners of public places are allowed to forbid their use by making a house-rule to that nature; it is though up to the individual owners to do so or not’.
I would think that the english situation would in essence be the same… so it is legal to use unless house-rules come in otherwise…|||ooooh, well from memory there is different legislation in NI but I can’t for the life of me remember what it is.
However, I think the foundation is the same - e-cigs don’t produce smoke and therefore are not covered by any smokefree legislation.
I guess the question in the UK is: Will the government bother to make an amendment to the original act - further, do statutory instruments exist that allow changes to be made by the department of health?
Seems to me that under the existing law it makes no difference even if they could prove that the emissions from e-cigs are substantively similar to cigarette smoke.
The wording of the act is quite clear - we are talking about the product of the process of combustion, a process that does not take place in e-cigs.
I’m fairly sure the wording of the act would have to be changed. A process that will take a while, unless there are statutory instruments that allow it to be changed. If there are, it could happen overnight.
Alternatively, things could get a bit fiddly:
Tags: cigar, E-Cigarette, Electronic Cigarette, Law & the E-Cigarette, manufacture, nicotineRelated posts
is e-smoking in public places legal in illinois?
By request:
The ban on smoking in Illinois was legislated for by the Public Act 095-0017 of the Illinois General Assembly.
The section that defines smoking reads:
Tags: Law & the E-Cigarette